Seems like the UK/Eire, Germany/Austria, Sweden, New Zealand/Australia, South Africa are pretty well represented here. We've also read a bit about France's wiring practices

What about some more "esoteric" (if you will) countries and their wiring devices, practices & codes:

I'm curious about the following countries and regions:

People's Republic of China
Hong Kong
Taiwan
Japan
Russia (and most of Eastern Europe)
Mexico
Middle East/Israel
Argentina/Chile/Uruguay/Paraguay
Brazil
Liberia
India

Has anyone had any experiences with these countries' wiring devices, practices, codes, electricians, etc.?

My only contacts (excuse the pun) with "foreign" electricity so far has been Canada and Colombia.

Both of these use standards similar to the USA and plugs and sockets are the same (hell some are even imported from the USA!), 120-volts/60 Hz etc.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 12-30-2002).]

I had to look up the word "esoteric": "confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle"

I too am very much interested in the wiring of "unknown" countries such as these. The Internet is of little help, it seems. Perhaps the information is there, but it's just not accessible unless one understands Chineese, Russian etc.

I can give you some clues, though: Hong Kong was part of the British Empire and uses the British sockets. Therefore I would think that the city adheres to UK standards.

Mexico has a national electric code similar to the NEC: I've seen a document from the NFPA (I think) where it was considered possible to create a common Canadian-US-Mexican code out of the present codes. Therefore, it can't be very different.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 12-30-2002).]

AFAIK, Japanese receptacles are NEMA 1-15,
but an earth is available. I don't know what
is in the walls or service panels.
They use 100V, 50 or 60Hz, depending on location.

Other than minor differences, Canada and
the USA use the same wiring.
For instance, all along, Canada has used
4 prong fittings for range/dryer connections
(the USA has adopted that in the last 5 years). The NM cable here has no paper inside it (at least new stuff). Kitchen
receptacles are to by wired on shared neutral
15A circuits, in the USA 20A single pole circuits, with GFCI on islands or near sinks.
FPE Stab-Lock panels and accessories are
still sold and used, and I guess approved.

I think India has both 220/380 and 240/415V Supplies and uses BS 546 plugs.
About Israel and Brazil we already had some discussions.

I spent 4 months in Bolivia on a short term mission. They use 220/385Y for all secondary. Small homes have single phase panels, but large homes have 3 phase panels. Most of the houses are adobe covered with stucco. They use a #12 zip cord stapled to the wall. The receptacles are feed through. There are special wooden blocks to mount the receptacles. They use a lot of knife switches. Most bathrooms have a small electric water heater in the shower head. The knife switch is to turn it on and off. You must remember to turn the water on first or it burns out the element! It is surprising how close to the shower stall the knife sitch is mounted.
They also have a threaded PVC water pipe that was very difficult to work with.

Gregory,

Are you inferring by using the term zip-cord that the Bolivian systems you came across were wired ungrounded with two wires?

What kind of receptacles did they use?

Are the knife-blades exposed in their switches or enclosed in some sort of sector housing?

Thanks.

I know Hong Kong used British fittings (both BS546 and BS1363), but I believe that their nominal voltage was 200V rather than the more usual 220-240V. I say "was," because I don't know whether they've changed the system in recent years.

I also understand that India still has some 3-wire DC distribution in a few areas, along with various nominal 3-phase AC systems: 220/380, 230/400, 240/415, 250/433. The 15A BS546 plug is still standard there.

This thread reminded me that I once made a web based database over the electricity, phones and TV systems used around the world. It is based on information from Steve Kropla's webpage and a number of other sources. I never really finished it, but my test page is in fact working:
http://www.i.kth.se/i98_gnk/testfolder/electricity.asp

Paul:

I think Hong Kong joined the European countries in their conversion to 230V. Which makes me wonder if China is going to change to 230V from todays 220V. The Chinese president Jiang Zemin, who is an electrical engineer , has said that the country is going to adapt to international (i.e. European) electrical standards in coming years. The 230V standard is the official international standard (IEC 60038), so there is some chance.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-01-2003).]

Wow! Seems to be quite solid.
Some comments though: Why hasn't Italy 230/400 listed? They use it! I think Liechtenstein should be 230/400 by now, as it gets power from switzerland only.
Does San Marino really uses Australian plugs? One would think of italian ones.
Switzerland has a little contradiction in it, it says : 230V at outlet, but voltages 220/380. Turkey detto.
Just what occured to me while browsing through the site, hope you don't mind my comments.

Your comments are most welcome.

The "problem" with Italy, Brazil and a few other countries is that the database holds records of each city or region. However, I haven't taken the time to finish the page, and therefore there is currently no information at all about these countries.

On the other hand, I think the information is rather outdated and I'm considering change these records to the country level.

Switzerland, San Marino, Turkey - fixed!


[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-02-2003).]

C-H,
Nice to see a database linked with power, TV and telephone standards all available together!

Re the voltage discrepancies, I've found that many of the compiled lists contain errors or omissions. The Kropla list is probably about the best, but it still has a few quirks.

Sven,
It's a bit silly to say that Australia AND New Zealand are being represented in the ECN Forums, considering that there are no people from Australia, contributing to ECN, the reasons for this, I am not sure, may-be they are too frigging ignorant, this is at their own peril!.

I just started writing up pages with descriptions of all the plugs in use. I do have much of the information in my head, but it does take some time to write it down.

Anybody who feels like writing up a good description of the type G (British 13A) so that people understands how it works and why you shouldn't open the shutter with a pen to insert a Europlug in the socket? (Something about ring mains)

The other little problem I have is the Indian and South African plugs. If I have understood things correctly (unlikely in this case) the Indian plug (D) is the old 5A BS 546 and the South African (M) is the old 15A. (Although both plugs exist in both countries)

Can anyone check that I got the dimensions right on this drawing?


(Drawing resized for your viewing pleasure)

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 01-04-2003).]

Trumpy:

The reason I said New Zealand/Australia was because of the two countries' proximity and common language and wiring norms.

Kind of like USA/Canada/Mexico, Austria/Germany, UK/Eire.

I don't have the BS546 specs. to hand, but your dimensions match up with the BS546 plugs I've just measured, as near as I can get it!

The reason for not jamming a "Euro" plug into a BS1363 socket is that many such outlets will be on a 30A ring circuit. As the cord attached to the Euro plug may be as small as 0.75 sq. mm, the 30A fuse/MCB in a British panel would not offer proper protection against short circuits.

Another reason is that the contacts weren't designed to accept round-pin plugs, and therefore might not make good contact.

And of course, if you try to jam in a Schuko of French-style grounding plug, there will be no ground/earth connection.




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 01-03-2003).]

Despite that they get jammed into BS1363 sockets (in Ireland anyway) all the time ! Screwdriver (or pencil!!!) or anything that happens to be to hand at the time jammed into the earth "hole" and shove the euro plug in.

So much for fuses!

C-H,

The 16A one in front of me - made in South Africa with a South African Bureau of Standards (SABS) mark on it has slightly longer live and neutral pins - just shorter than 21 mm. I never realised before that they were exactly an inch apart!. The earth pin is slightly thinner at 8.6 mm.

If you want one for your collection C-H, email me an address off list and I’ll send you one. I’ve got a few here and they’re not that much use to me in NEMA land!

Echo that from me. I have some spare old BS546 plugs in 2, 5 and 15A varieties if you're interested.

I've managed to get the drawings of some plugs onto the page. I noticed something peculiar when doing this: The Israeli plug has virtually the same dimensions as the other European plugs. I'm not going to accept that pins on 19 mm centres and 4.8 mm diametre are some God-given dimension. There must be a reason for this design. Were French or German plugs used in Israel at one point? Then the flattening of the pins on the Israeli plug would make sense, to prevent you from inserting these plugs.

Hutch: This plug is polarized, can be equipped with insulating sleevs and has pins that won't bend! You can even have the earth up, if you want to. (I doubt the Arab countries would adopt it though )

This plug also resembles the "Middle Eastern" plug Sven told us about.



[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-05-2003).]

Here are some drawings and other information courtesy of Sony:
http://www.sony.jp/ServiceArea/Voltage_map/list.html

Hope that helps.

I'm trying to improve my list of voltages. I just got a reply from the Maltese standards organization: Malta is now 230V too. This means that all new EU members are on 230V already. The possible exception is Cyprus, from which I expect to get a reply soon.

The Sony list has some interesting things.
What kind of thing is the Korea plug, Euro plug with 4.8mm pins? Do they use NEMA 1-15/round pin combo outlets?
And what is the D type plug? How can it be polarized with 2 equally sized prongs? It seems to be used in China.
Interesting they don't show any dimensions of the 13A plug!
What is the DRIT TV system??????? I only know NTSC, PAL and SECAM.

DRIT - North Korean, I'd hate to guess!

The symetrical polarised plug got me too. I'm sure they meant to say 'non' and not 'new'.

Help!
Socialist Republic of Czechoslovakia is still on that list! And Spain has 127/220. Okay, Okay, I'm ready to believe anything!
Very accurate, good idea to have put that disclaimer on the top page!

The "Chinese" plug is obviously a typo.

It's the same as the American un-polarized plug, both are widely available here in NEMA-land. Of course they're all made in China now...

Check the dimensions of the unpolarized plug pins with the narrow pin of the "American" plug.

--

Spain:

I didn't know Spain had dropped the 120-volt system?

My mom lived in Spain for a while...in the 1970s while in school. She remembers having to switch the voltage on her portable radio depending on what area she was in at the time.

--
N. Korea TV (DRIT):

Deceptive
Repulsive
Institutional
Television

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 01-09-2003).]

Ermm... The Chinese plug has different manufacturing tolerances than the American or Japanese plug and it has no holes in the blades, as you can see. And yes, the Japanese plug is different from the American too. Otherwise it wouldn't meet the "barrier to trade" requirement that is imposed on all national technical standards. Electrical equipment sold in China must carry the "Great Wall" mark, just like you need a UL in the US. (They are working on this to allow any approval agency to use any mark.)

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-10-2003).]

Ragnar: Yes, the pins on the Korean "Euro"-plug ("Koro" plug???) has for some reason the same diameter (and pin spacing) as the Schuko plug. South Korea has seen the light and come to understand that the right way is Schuko and 220V, not NEMA and 110V.

Sven: Perhaps, PAL - Pay A Lot, had to be renamed in the socialist state of North Korea?

Seriously, guys, I have tried to find some information about North Korea, but I haven't. I have found out that 220V is used in Pyoungyang, but not which system it is derived from nor the frequency. The Sony site lists 60Hz, but I'm not overly impressed by the accuracy of the information.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-10-2003).]

C-H:

Re. two-pin Chinese plug:

Welll....yes.

But if you compare the two, the difference is fractions of a millimeter. The "Chinese" version will fit a NEMA outlet and will make proper contact.

I The holes in the pins are optional. According to a NEMA document I found on-line that gives plug-blade dimensions and various configs, they're used for manufacturing purposes (to hang the little pins from a wire or clamp them while molding?)

Loads of stuff gets sold here with that plug. Myself, I have a 110-volt charger for a an electric shaver, a night light and a small glue-gun with that exact plug (with no holes). None of these are UL listed.

I've also seen extension cords with plugs with no holes in the blades and even some very old appliances (American made with American-made cordsets) that also don't have those little holes in the plug pins.

China also uses the Australian-style plug for appliances that require grounding I found out.

As far as the USA requiring UL.....hmmm....well....to be honest....it's optional.

It's a good MARKETING practice to get a UL symbol (and some places, like do insist on only using/having UL listed devices), but it is not necessary. Otherwise we wouldn't have all these non-UL listed appliances in the USA.

My computer stereo speakers are also not UL listed and these work directly off the 110-volt wall sockets with no "power-pack".

The weird thing is that the speakers are stamped with the CE logo!!!

To take the China plug discussion a step further: I think these plugs will have holes too soon or at least the same length as the American, since the US version is what was adopted as IEC standard and China are converting to IEC standards.

Thanks for your info, I never heard of the DRIT TV system before.
New or non... easy to mix up for a hard-working web admin
Well, at least one more country on the right side of power
My guess is that the "Koro" plug is designed to work with receptacles that can take either NEMA 1-15 or round-pin plugs, like used in Thailand. I have one of those, and Euro plugs just fall out of it, whereas NEMA plugs and the contour plugs with thicker round pins work well.
Well, "pay a lot" is still better than "Never Twice the Same Color"!
What's wrong with the speaker working off the 110V supply? They mus have an internal transformer, they can't possibly operate internally on 120V! Maybe they're also produced for European markets, and I don'T think they use a different casing for these markets, so that's where the CE mark comes from.

Ragnar,

Didn't say anything was wrong.

In fact that's why I bought this cheap piece of s&^$ because it didn't have a stupid external transformer box like other similar ones I had seen for sale.

These speakers are good enough for a work computer that only uses them to amplify the email-signal tone loud enough so I can hear it across the store-room I work in (and occasional Real-Audio & Windows Media streaming and MP3-disk playback all of which are crappy sounding to begin with) .

Only cost US$10.00 plus taxes.

The transformer is inside one of the little speaker cabinets and is connected to a 5 foot piece of #18 zip cord. I recently had to replace the cord-cap because the original molded-on plug became intermittent.

As for PAL vs. NTSC:

I call it Perfection At Last.

I'd love to see a PAL TV in action...picking up an over-the-air TV station to see how good the quality is.

I've heard it's very good...and the old French 812 SECAM B&W system was even better. Too bad they had to drop down to 625 when color was adopted (bandwith issues).

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 01-10-2003).]

You're right, speakers with internal power supplies are really nice, I have quite good 20W types that directly plug into the IEC outlet at the back of your computer.
PAL TV is visibly better compared to NTSC, I had to watch US TV for 10 days when in NYC, and it always looks slightly blurred (Concerning the sound I don't know whether it was a bad movie or typical, anyway it sounded like transmitted over the phone, even on a dolby surround system). Also there seem to be some channels you definitely don't need (at least more than here), I've never seen more bad movies than those my host always kept running. The more channels you have the more useless ones you get. (Austria has 2, ORF 1 on VHF and ORF 2 on UHF, if we want more we can get cable/satellite and tune in german stations, some of which are hardly better than the US ones I mentioned above).

Ragnar: I'm sorry to say but I think your theory is wrong: If you could plug in 4.8 mm pins into the US socket, a grounded socket would accept Schuko plugs but without ground. Furthermore: It's harder to get the larger pins in than the smaller as you start interfering on the Nema socket. I have a adapter that accepts both the Schukos and Nema plugs (made by Kopp). It takes some effort to insert a Schuko plug.

C-H,

Re. North Korea TV:
I visited Steve Kropla's page and according to his list, North Korea uses both SECAM and PAL.

I believe that the reason PAL is listed is because "SECAM" VCRs are actually recording in PAL and they convert the output signal to SECAM. You're the engineering student, maybe you can explain it better.

The actual TV stations may broadcast in SECAM. See http://www.kropla.com/tv.htm


Re. Adapters:
Keep sticking a Schuko plug into an adapter designed for the thinner Europlug pins and you'll eventually ruin the adapter's female contacts - spread them out enough that they loose their spring action and don't grip Europlugs anymore. They're very thin metal and bend easily.

Maybe that's why the Europlugs keep slipping out of Ragnar's adapter.

I ruined a couple of cheap "German to American" adapters by doing that that (fortunately they only cost US$1 and I was able to unscrew them and bend back the contacts so now they grip Europlugs properly).

Maybe you have better adapters out there...hehehe

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 01-10-2003).]

PAL and SECAM DVD:s are recorded in the same format, but I don't know if the same applies to video tapes. Kropla's list should only reflect actual broadcasts, not what people have in their videos. (Many PAL videos can play back NTSC tapes.)

Yes, PAL and SECAM are similar. The black and white part is the same, it's just the colour coding that differs. (NTSC is different in both aspects) They came the same year, but SECAM is inferior and was (therefore?) adopted by the communist block. In fact, the PAL colour coding is supposed to simply be an improved version of NTSC. They fixed the Newer-Twice-Same-Colour problem, but this made it more complex than NTSC. (Hence: Pay a lot)

PAL quality isn't that great. Not as much because of the format as of distortion during transmission and reception. Hooking it up to a DVD should do magic.

What I was talking about was a Thailand 2 outlet extension cord. The outlets have holes like the mentioned adaptors, but as a matter of fact Euro plugs won't make proper contacts and eventually fall out of these oriental combo type. So my guess was that the type used in thailand (and maybe in Korea as well) is built for 4.8 mm pins. The lists I saw only give very vague opinions on this, they don't make any difference between the 2.5 A Europlug and the 16A rated ungrounded contour plug (shape of a Schuko plug but without ground contacts) with 4.8 mm pins).
SECAM was adopted by the eastern countries simply to keep people from watching western TV. However, soon PAL/SECAM TVs came out.

But they hardly sold those sets in Eastern Europe, did they? (BTW, Thailand and South Korea are as far apart as Austria and Romania economically, not to mention geographically)

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-10-2003).]

One thing that’s made it a little easier is the “IEC-320” connector/plug.

I never connected Korea and Thailand in that way, but those NEMA/round pin combos were even lurking around here at some time, so I assumed they migh be used in Korea as well. However, the Kropla list shows Schuko plugs as well, so it's probably just an idea of them using 4.8 mm pins. Doesn't make much of a difference, although they can't get their plugs into female Euro cord caps. There are weird things around, I even have an old ungrounded plug with 4.8mm pins, no idea where it comes from. Seems my guess was wrong. Anyway, it was just a guess.
I think PAL/SECAM sets were sold in the GDR. Even some Panasonic video recorders for PAL/SECAM east found their way there. I have one of those (although sold in Vienna) with a sticker on top proudly presenting: SECAM (DDR) reception!

I have now made a page for each of the plugs used around the world. (Types A-M) Most of them still contain nothing but a drawing and a very brief description. I would like some input please: How should the layout be improved?

Here is the page for the simple two pin plug:
http://www.i.kth.se/i98_gnk/testfolder/plugs/C.htm

Sven:
You better hurry up if you want to see PAL over the air. Germany begins shutdown of PAL broadcasts this years and the rest of Europe is set to follow in the next ten years.

Bjarney:
Yes, but why don't they put a male IEC 320 connector at the end of the cord instead of a female in the appliance? Then they could simply ship a bunch of adapters. (Nema to IEC 320, Schuko to IEC 320 and so on.)

I've also seen PAL called "Pictures At Last" and "People Are Lavender". As for the cost of equipment, in the early days of British color (O.K. "Colour" then! ) there were actually two types of PAL decoder used in receivers.

PAL-S was the simple system which just displayed each line as it was decoded and relied upon the human eye to average out any phase error (i.e. a phase shift which would turn a yellow area toward red on one line would automatically shift it toward green on the next line due to the V-signal phase inversion). The PAL-D (Deluxe) decoder used a delay line to electronically average out the phase error before it reached the CRT. And it cost more, of course!


Generally, 625-line PAL gives very good pictures. but then 525-NTSC is capable of excellent results too. I've dealt with all three of the main systems (625-PAL, 625-SECAM, 525-NTSC) and given good clean signals with properly adjusted equipment they are all capable of delivering good quality pictures. In fact, when I was at Goonhilly we would regularly have a bank of monitors displaying images in all three formats and it was very difficult to tell them apart without looking at the telltale mode lights.

In fact in a studio environment, NTSC has some advantages over PAL, such as improved vertical color resolution and the ability to make tighter edits on videotape.

Where PAL scores heavily is under "average" broadcast conditions. NTSC is very sensitive to phase shifts in the color subcarrier, which result in hue errors. That's why American sets have separate hue and saturation controls.

With PAL the color reference oscillator in the receiver is accurately locked to the transmitted signal so that only a saturation control is needed. Thus PAL tends to give better results when the signal is less than ideal, although the difference is perhaps not quite so great as some people would have you believe.

As has been mentioned above, the distribution network for TV signals can do all sorts of nasty things to the signals. Cable TV is common throughout America, but all systems are not equal! I've seen a few cable networks where the quality of the signals is really bad (certainly below FCC minimums for broadcast quality). It takes only a few bad connections on the cables (or one or two unauthorized taps!) to really mess up the impedance matching and create some horrible phase shift errors. PAL and SECAM will also suffer from bad ghosting and other gremlins in such circumstances.

The old French system was actually 819 lines, and was monochrome only. You can't call it SECAM, because SECAM is the color system (Sequentiel Couleur A Memoire), which as you say was adopted in France with a change to 625 line standards.

I've heard various arguments over why France favored SECAM over other systems, including the one that it was to protect French manufacturing interests. Although SECAM wasn't widely transmitted until much later, it was being developed in the 1950s though, and thus pre-dates PAL, at least in its first version. It also went through several stages of development, and today there still exists a variant of "standard SECAM" which is used in some Middle-East countries.

VHS and Beta video formats for PAL and SECAM are different. The basic luminance and sound recording are identical, only the color signals are handled differently, so it's possible to play such a tape in the "wrong" machine and get a black-&-white picture.

By the way, in some circles SECAM is known as "System Essentially Contrary to American Method." Never let it be said that engineers don't have a sense of humor!

Neither have I! I suspect that somewhere along the line somebody might have misread and corrupted this abbreviation from "OIRT". The latter is the official broadcast standard used in many former Eastern-Block countries (I forget what the initials stand for).

Not only did they adopt SECAM rather than PAL for color (which in itself would still have allowed people near the border to watch Western TV in black-&-white), they also used different channel assignments and spacing. A major difference is that system B (most of Western Europe, except France) used 5.5MHz spacing between video and audio carriers whereas system D (Eastern Europe) was 6.5MHz. That would prevent anyone tuning in the "wrong" stations from hearing any sound!


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 01-12-2003).]

The plug description is much better than the other ones I've seen.
What about adding the polarized NEMA plug to A?
Picture D answers the old question whether there are BS 546 plugs with the cord emerging straight.
Some E plugs I've seen (old "French only") were not round but shaped like a triangle with rounded corners.
The "shaped C plug" is called "contour plug". It has 4.8mm pins and is shaped like a Schuko plug.
In Italy there are also wall receptacles that have an Italian 10/16A and a standard Schuko receptacle side by side. Lots of equipment in Italy is sold with Schuko plugs, hence lots of adaptors. Really looks like the good 'ole italian plug is going down the drain in favor of Schuko!
Australian sockets are always grounded, but plugs aren't necessarily!
Italian 16A plug has 4.8mm plugs, so you can't plug contour plugs into an italian receptacle (frequently heard girls yelling about not being able to use their hairdryers). As a matter of fact our room at a Torino Youth hostel had a receptacle which would _only_ take 16A plugs! Imagine the cursing of 4 people wanting to charge their cell phones!

Wow, now I know more about PAL/SECAM/NTSC.

Yes, I have also seem the name contour plug. I have to add a drawing or picture to explain what it looks like. I was thinking of placing this under the 2.5A plug section.

I couldn't find a drawing of the type E plug, so I simply made one from dimensions of the combination plug. All cordsets seem to be the combination type.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 01-13-2003).]

Years ago I came across an article on pirate TV in a magazine that also told of how Eastern Europeans would drive to the borders with Western European countries and hook up portable TV sets to the batteries of their cars to watch the Western TV networks.

Also, a lot of people (in Poland) would build their own sattelite dishes and receivers.

I assume people living in East Germany could tune in the West German TV channels and vice versa, right?

What happened to the East German TV channels? Were they just absorbed by the ZDF, ARD and 3 networks or did they stay on as additional channels along with new ARD, ZDF and 3 relay stations?

CH:

Here's a picture of a French plug and socket for your website. I stole it from Castorama:

Male plug side view:



male plug face view:


-------
The plugs and sockts are manufactured by Legrand (who has a nasty website, by the way).
-------

Here is a shot of a French earthed wall socket:

--------------------
Here is a shot of an un-earthed two-pin socket:


[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 01-13-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 05-24-2004).]

Tack!

In the GDR most people could watch western TV, except for the Dresden area. For this ARD was also called "ausser Raum Dresden", i.e. "except Dresden area". The 2 national stations DDR 1 and DDR 2 just died and the hardware was probably either absorbed or taken down (outdated equipment,...).
The SECAM videos I tried to play on PAL recorder and TV actually had color, but with weird patterns all over. The NTSC Super Nintendo I own works perfectly on a PAL TV, only in black and white. I tried that for quite some time before buying a used NTSC/PAL TV set.
Concerning plugs, where can you get fuses for 13A plugs? I guess in Ireland many shops carry them. (I'll probably travel to Dublin next summer, and I need a new fuse for our adaptor (my dad blew the old 2A one by plugging in a hairdryer, so I gotta replace it with something that can stand a 1200W hairdryer and is _not_ aluminum foil), and I think trying to get one here will be more difficult).

We have two rather separate themes here at the moment, so I thought it might be an idea to create a separate thread for the TV-related part of this discussion: Go here .

Ranger,
The standard BS1362 plug fuse can be purchased in almost any hardware/electrical store in the U.K. or Republic of Ireland. (Although you'll pay through the nose for them at your local hardware store compared to an electrical wholesaler).

3A and 13A values are available almost everywhere; 5A is stocked by some (but not all) stores. Few domestic retail outlets stock the other values (1, 2, 7, 10A) as these are not specified for use in BS1363 plugs any more.

If you want to get your fuses sorted out before you leave Austria, if you e-mail me with your postal address I could send you a few.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 01-13-2003).]

Hey guys, the product I wanted does exist!



Now, why don't they ship appliances with these?

Cuz it's too expensive to supply and ship?

Keep in mind that you're talking about manufacturers that will omit a 5-cent resistor if it helps them get a 100-percent markup in the final price.

I've seen the set you picture at Radio Shack here in the USA.

It includes one BS-1363, one Nema 1-15, one Europlug and one Australian plug.

Fairly expensive...I think I saw it for $13 plus taxes.

Now...I wonder what the BS-1363 adapter-plug is fused with?

If they're smart, they would have given you a 3-amp, a 5-amp and a 13 amp fuse depending on what you're using.

But I betcha it's probably equipped with a 13-amp fuse!

One advantage of this is that I can take the American adapter-plug, stick it directly into the back of my radio/cassette-recorder (figure-eight socket) and stick the whole thing directly into a wall socket. Presto. Wall-mounted sound system!!

I wouldn't be at all surprised. After all, it's a 13A plug, so it needs a 13A fuse, right?

Even with a 13A fuse, the cord is just as well protected as it would be when using the other plugs fed from a 15 or 16A breaker at the panel.

Some information on Hong Kong:
http://www.info.gov.hk/hkfacts/supplies.pdf

When I was a kid, we used to have 200V; but since all the imported appliances were rated 220V (or switchable 110/120/220/240 but not to 200V), it made more sense to boost up to 220V/380V. No, we have not converted to 230V (as can be seen in the government publication).

OIRT ==> Organisation Internationale de Radio et Télévision, with 28 members consisting mainly of Eastern European countries. It became part of the EBU in 1993.

I thought only SECAM was inferior in vertical colour resolution, compared to PAL and NTSC. PAL has full chrominance information on every line, only to be inverted every other line to create the "phase alternation". SECAM stores only R-Y on one line and B-Y on the other, therefore only offering half the colour information than PAL or NTSC.

SECAM studio equipment is expensive, and is hard to manage for production work (the FM chrominance signal makes it impossible to mix two images together). In analog days, most studio used PAL for shooting and editing, only to convert to SECAM at the transmission stage (modern digital equipment only distinguishes between 525/625 lines, since the signal is component, not composite like PAL, NTSC or SECAM).

DullDull

Welcome!

You're in Hong Kong?

Ok, the 220V rather than 230V is noted. This mean that it is harmonized with the Chinese rather than the British voltage.

{Goes of to update database}

I doubt it makes much difference anyway. UK 240 V appliences always worked just fine on Irish 220V supplies. It's well within the tollerances and has been for years.

You can't even guarantee 220V / 230V or 240V especially in rural areas in any country really. I wouldn't be supprised to see 220V at an outlet in the UK and I have seen 210V in ireland in rural areas at times.

It does in those rare cases where the voltage is at the high or low end of the allowed interval. 220 +/-10% means that the low voltage is 198V. Enough to destroy 240V motors. 240 +/-10% means a high voltage is 264V, which is enough to overheat and destroy 220V ballasts and electronics. If it's poorly designed, it can catch fire. Therefore, the nominal voltage and the tolerances do matter.

(Side note: Australia and the UK had 240V +/- 6%, and the US and Canada also have very tight tolerances. However, there is little point in having tight tolerances if other countries don't. Appliances will then have be made to accomodate the wider tolerances anyway)

Hi there Dulldull and welcome to ECN!

PAL transmits both R-Y and B-Y on every line, so the broadcast color resolution is excellent. However, you lose some of the resolution because of the electronic averaging which takes place in a PAL-D receiver (which is all modern types).

Curiously, the older and cheaper PAL-S sets without a delay line offered better vertical color resolution than the more expensive PAL-D set does, although the latter is better at covering up the effects of a large phase error.

As you say though, PAL is still way ahead in vertical color resolution compared to SECAM with its R-Y on one line, B-Y on the next approach.

Back on nominal supply voltages, you'll find some older British-made radio/TV/audio equipment which had voltage settings covering the full range from 200 through 250V, although in later years 220 to 250V was perhaps more common.

DJK,
Yes, I've seen 220V at outlets here from time to time, although it not that common forit to drop that low. About the lowest I've ever recorded at my present location is 224V (brown-outs due to faults excepted).

That would have been just outside the permitted 6% tolerance of a nominal 240V supply, although within the new 230V +10%/-6% tolerance.

Spain is notorious for bad voltage regulation in rural areas. Some people have reported getting only 170 - 180V on a regular basis in some areas!

What do you expect when all those British tourists plug in their kettles?

LOL!

Yeah, I'm afraid that many of the Brits who pile into Spain every year cause trouble in many other ways too!

Funny thing: When I use Google to search for information on electricity in strange countries, this thread is always among the results. I even got an e-mail from someone who had found my page on voltages and plugs.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 02-11-2003).]

"Funny thing: When I use Google to search for information on electricity in strange countries, this thread is always among the results."

I think it's got to do with the links of the pictures, which are from maplin and castorama. Two "popular" (for google) sites

I have a few old Hubbell made duplex
outlets that look a lot like the
Australian 3 prong power plug. As
far as I can tell, the pin-out matches
as well (ground pin matches).

I actually have them, and use them for DC power on occasion.

"Mexico has a national electric code similar to the NEC: I've seen a document from the NFPA (I think) where it was considered possible to create a common Canadian-US-Mexican code out of the present codes. Therefore, it can't be very different."

I have heard this to be true, but if it is, enforcement is very spotty, to say the least. The cities usually have 120/208 3phase distribution, and individual houses and small businesses usually have 120V 30A service. Exposed knife switches are still frequently seen, fused neutrals remain very common, conduits are usually discontinuous and grounds frequently nonexistent. I've seen open meter sockets with jumpers in them, disconnects with doors open and aluminum foil jammed into the fuseholders.

The most common wiring method is something that looks like zip cord. It is white and has two 12 AWG solid conductors. "Conduits" are sometimes made by coating a piece of water hose with lard and embedding it in concrete. Once the concrete hardens, the greased hose is pulled out and reused. Receptacles are NEMA 5-15 and 1-15, but some houses and most public markets have no receptacles. You will see two wires, spliced with or without tape, wrapped through the holes in the exposed blades of a 1-15 plug.

The maquiladoras (Free-trade zone factories)appear to be wired to North American code standards, as far as I could tell from the window of a passing bus. I have heard that IBEW electricians wishing to work in Mexican industrial plants may apply at the El Paso local.

I have also heard that in some locations, the nominal voltage is 127V.

Sounds similar to Romex (NM cable)...

Also...considering that almost all our end-user residential wiring devices (plugs, connectors and wall receptacles) are now made in Mexico, you think they're cheaper there than here.

So there really isn't any excuse for people to wrap wires around plug pins. Except stinginess and laziness.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 02-21-2003).]

Hi there yaktx, and welcome to ECN.

A 3-phase wye system at 127/220V was common is many parts of Europe before standardization at the higher voltages. I know that similar systems are still used in some South American countries.

Wiring in Hong Kong
Same as UK http://www.emsd.gov.hk/emsd/eng/pps/electricity_new_3/index.shtml

Wiring in China
3 phase:
L1-Yellow L2-Green L3-Red N-Light blue

Meter box #1 Meter box #2 (Eletricity Co's property)

Distribution box-Old(1 circuit only)

Main Switch-RCBO

[This message has been edited by Cn_HK (edited 10-24-2004).]

Modern(at least 6 circuits) Manufacturer
Main Switch-RCD-MCBs

Wiring arrangement
Ridial,L-Red(usually) or other color,N-Light blue,E-Yellow/Green
Kitchen, Air-con Min. 4mm2
Socket Min. 2.5mm2
Lighting Min. 1.5mm2

Distance recommendation above floor:
Conduit embedded in wall Socket:>0.3m , Switch:1.2-1.4m
Trunking on surafce Socket:>1.8m

Conduit & fitting


Trunking

Mounting Box,Socket & switch (Same size as the UK one)
BOX 10A 16A 25A,3 phase

[This message has been edited by Cn_HK (edited 10-24-2004).]

It looks like China's actually adopted a very sensible system. The Aus/NZ standard's simple and effective. I guess that HK will eventually phase out the current BS1363 system as china phases out the various systems that have been in use there including 220V sockets in the 110V NEMA configuration.

Thanks CN_hk for those pictures and information.

I wonder why China uses American-type plugs for Class II appliances on 220 volts? I wonder if it's because since they make the majority of appliances and other small electrical products sold here.

Taiwan uses American sockets, but they're on a 110 volt/60 hertz system like the USA.

My friend Brenda in Rep. of Korea sent me a Korean outlet. It's a two round-hole socket, designed to fit in an American style box. However the terminals are "back-stab" push-in. No screw terminals of any type.

I was tempted to ask her to pick me up a bunch more to actually install, but changed my mind when I saw the type of terminations because that's like asking for a fire-hazard.

Cn_HK,

I'll echo Djk. Looks like a neat setup. The RCD in the "old" chinese consumer unit is a nice surprise. Homes with an RCD and grounded sockets throughout were rare in Sweden ten years ago.

Sven,
is that Korean outlet grounded or ungrounded? Those terminals probably work better on 240V than on 120V as the current will in most cases be lower. (Pretty rare to load it to more than 10A)

C-H it is ungrounded.

Korean wiring doesn't use grounds or neutrals.

It is 220 volts across hot & hot

I had a phone conversation today with a coworker who is in China supervising installations of machines in a new factory. He complained that my webpage was misleading - plugs aren't very often used. "They just stick the wires in the outlet. I even saw a guy who held them in place with a screwdriver..."

Rather than a consistent colour coding, which you would expect from new work done at the same time, the Chinese sparkies use red, blue, yellow and green indiscriminately for the phases. Earth is (supposed to be) black according to the locals. (Didn't the Russian use that?) Nevertheless, they were better sparkies than plumbers...

On the upside, the booze is cheap. :-)

China is so big, which city your coworker worked in ? Different parts of China had different "standand". Poorer area had many "invention" For example:
1)Colour of wire is not important. L,N,E-SAME colour.
2)Use the cheapest wire- Al wire
These so called "sparkies" learned the above "skills " in their hometown.
When they rushed to big cities, they can't compete with liscensed local sparkies's quality work, only way to "survive" in the market is lower their wage.
"You got what you paid for" always apply to everything in China, from goods to services NOTHING had expection. "Pay more" got "better quality".

Traditionlly delta area of Guangdong Province uses bayonet light bulb, ripped off BS546 plug & British colour code (L-Red N-Black) for domestic wiring. Even today, T&E still manufactured in British colour (L-Red N-Black)
CCC A034958 DONGGUAN VENUS ELECTRIC WIRE

CO. LTD BVVB 300/500V PVC CABLE V094


[This message has been edited by Cn_HK (edited 10-24-2004).]

Rather interesting that both yellow and green are typically used for phases.

If you look at most European countries, it seems that when they adopted green/yellow for earth they also specified that neither plain yellow nor plain green should continue to be used for any other function (the U.K. being an exception with a yellow B-phase).

I'm not sure about allowing dark blue as a phase when light blue is neutral either. Seems ther might be room for a little confusion there.

Cn_Hk, it is nice to see that you are still on the forum! I often wonder what happens to people who have posted one or two times.

It isn't one of the big, well known cities and I don't doubt that Beijing or Shanghai would have been different and Hong Kong very different. Nor do I doubt that ten years from now, they will be doing things to much stricter standards even in the small cities. As I understand it these guys aren't paid bad and I suspect that the company in charge simply didn't hire the best people for the job. The world is full of people who take on jobs they don't fully master.

Cn_HK,
Great to see you back!.
Thanks for the great pics, I've always wondered what sort of gear you guys used in Hong Kong.

Cox Bros Electrical Co (Traditional Chinese) *Group 25= URL The Pics & Specs would draw the picture in your mind. Translate via SYSTRAN when necessary (Not recommend,horrible result)

[This message has been edited by Cn_HK (edited 10-25-2004).]

Cn_HK, will Hong Kong change its wiring colours to match the new IEE regs? I can't see why it should, as it's nowhere near Europe and there will be no trade benefit, but you never know.

Sven, looking back at your list, information about these countries have surfaced one by one in this forum since you wrote it almost two years ago. Some places like Liberia remain complete unknowns, though.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 10-26-2004).]

Doesn't Liberia follow U.S. practice in many respects? It certainly seems to be the only 60Hz country in Africa, and according to all sources the only one using NEMA plugs.

Unsure. Safety Advisory Committee is discussing that topic.

[This message has been edited by Cn_HK (edited 10-28-2004).]

I think Hong Kong should stay with the existing British wiring standards.

Changing plug and wiring configurations only leads to confusion later on, especially when average folks have to start cutting off factory-molded plugs and screw new replacements on, or deal with dodgy adapters.

Chinese sockets, in new work. The one on the left is ordinary 220V, the one on the right is 380V. According to the correspodent, the latter is better than the plug/sockets used in Europe as it allows you to swap phases easily. (I have a picture of the corresponding plug, but I think I can leave it to your imagination.)



{Edited to correct image link}

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 12-09-2004).]

C-H:

The socket on the right looks similar to our 240-volt 50 amp sockets used for stoves here, except the horizontally oriented pin is replaced by a round one, for the ground.

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 12-09-2004).]

Resurrecting this ancient thread because it still seems to be popular on the web.

According to all sources I've found, the Republic of Korea (South) migrated from a US system (120/240 V, 60 Hz, NEMA plugs) to 230/400 V 60 Hz using Schuko sockets starting in the 1970s. I've seen pictures of services that clearly indicated three phases plus neutral, supporting the 230/400 V claims. Sockets are regular German Schuko but designed to cram a double into an American box.

Here's the only one I've ever seen for sale online with (sort of) English description:
https://www.ebayshopkorea.com/itm/2...Outlet-Panel-EU-220V-KOREAN/222470620152

North Korea apparently also uses Schuko sockets but the mains frequency seems to be 50 Hz.

When I visited North Korea around 3 years ago they were using Chinese sockets.

That's quite interesting! Seems that online sources are either outdated or plain wrong!

I recently watched a bunch of electrical videos from Romania and found some interesting things. Wiring practices are generally central European, DIN rail fuse boards, Diazed fuses in old installations, Schuko sockets, the lot. Wire colours are... interesting. Even the few videos I've watched show three clearly distinct systems. The oldest stuff seems to have black lives and white neutrals, no earths at all. New stuff seems to be the French take on harmonised colours, live/L1 mostly red, N blue, earth yellow/green. Then it gets funny though. Some of the slightly older wiring (1980s and 90s maybe) is L1 red, L2 yellow, L3 blue, N black, earth green, i.e. follows old British standards! There's a video that explains the two newer schemes but I don't understand enough to get whether the old British colours are still acceptable.

Romania might also be the last European or EU country that still uses 2.5 and 4 mm2 Al wire. Earths are required to be copper, leading to odd circuits like 2x2.5Al/1.5Cu for lighting and 2x4Al/2.5Cu for sockets (singles in conduit).

Just been to Egypt. Everywhere, private houses, hotels, even Nile cruise ships had 2 pin sockets. Pins 19mm apart 4.8mm dia European sizes. Only saw Schuko in the airport though whether they were earthed who knows.
However most electrical equipment has moulded Schuko plugs which were plugged in so not earthed. Pretty grim really.
Voltage was measured a tad under 240v and was live and neutral.

I went to Egypt about 15 years ago. Part of our tour was a visit to an Ethiopian village somewhere down past Aswan. I've no idea whether it was genuine or a set piece. It was fairly primitive, but it had electricity.
I saw a pair of thin wires I first took to be telephone coming to insulators on one of houses only about seven or eight feet from the ground near the doorway. I could easily have reached up to them!
Following their path, they were connected to fluorescent battens inside! There were also refrigerators and TVs but I couldn't see how power was distributed.
Another original installation I spotted was a street market lit by large pendants suspended straight off the overhead distribution cables connecting nearby buildings.

Yes, Egypt seems to be scary! I'Ve heard stories from German expat electricians and they aren't exactly happy with the work of their local colleagues! You don't even have to go that far though. From what I've seen, distribution boards with exposed terminals on MCBs, main switches and main fuses seem to be perfectly acceptable in Russia. The typical block of flats has a metal box with all the meters for each floor, a double-pole main switch for each flat and three MCBs per flat, two in very old buildings. Typical modernisations replace the rotary main switch with exposed screw terminals with a double-pole MCB on a piece of DIN rail and a proper CU inside the flat. That's shoddy even by Eastern bloc standards! I wouldn't want to mess with the guts of a live Czechoslovakian meter cabinet either but under normal operating conditions they're perfectly safe.

That's what I'm talking about (two fools trying to work live on a burnt terminal block in a Czechoslovakian meter enclosure):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRE2vBoAWSs