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Posted By: pauluk More British peculiarities - 09/15/01 12:12 AM
I reckon it's time to hit you with a few more oddities of British practice. Nothing big here; just a few more things off the top of my head that are different.

1. We do have Edison screw bulbs in some fixtures, but the majority of domestic light bulbs are a twin-contact bayonet fitting.

2. Electric ranges are hard-wired to the supply; no plug & socket disconnect. A switch to shut off power to the appliance is installed nearby (IEE specifies within 6 ft).

3. Fixed fans, wall heaters, etc. rated up to 3kW may be connected by a plug & adjacent outlet, but it is most usual for these to be hard-wired as well. When these are wired onto our standard ring, the outlet incorporates a suitable cartridge fuse (the same type as in our plugs) and may also include an isolation switch.

4. The main switch on a domestic panel opens the neutral as well as the "hot." Isolation switches for fixed appliances (as above) are also commonly double pole.

5. Cable sizes are measured differently. Old cables were specified by number & size of strands, e.g. a common size was 7/.029, or 7 seven strnds each 0.029 in. diameter. Metric cables introduced 1970 just specify the cross-sectional area in square millimeters, e.g. 1.5, 2.5, 4, 6, etc.

6. Aluminum is spelled ALUMINIUM, and pronounced al-u-MIN-ium rather than a-LU-mi-num.

That should keep you going a while.
Posted By: bordew Re: More British peculiarities - 09/15/01 05:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by pauluk:
I reckon it's time to hit you with a few more oddities of British practice. Nothing big here; just a few more things off the top of my head that are different.

1. We do have Edison screw bulbs in some fixtures, but the majority of domestic light bulbs are a twin-contact bayonet fitting.

2. Electric ranges are hard-wired to the supply; no plug & socket disconnect. A switch to shut off power to the appliance is installed nearby (IEE specifies within 6 ft).

3. Fixed fans, wall heaters, etc. rated up to 3kW may be connected by a plug & adjacent outlet, but it is most usual for these to be hard-wired as well. When these are wired onto our standard ring, the outlet incorporates a suitable cartridge fuse (the same type as in our plugs) and may also include an isolation switch.

4. The main switch on a domestic panel opens the neutral as well as the "hot." Isolation switches for fixed appliances (as above) are also commonly double pole.

5. Cable sizes are measured differently. Old cables were specified by number & size of strands, e.g. a common size was 7/.029, or 7 seven strnds each 0.029 in. diameter. Metric cables introduced 1970 just specify the cross-sectional area in square millimeters, e.g. 1.5, 2.5, 4, 6, etc.

6. Aluminum is spelled ALUMINIUM, and pronounced al-u-MIN-ium rather than a-LU-mi-num.

That should keep you going a while.

I did a revamp a few monthes ago. It was a 30 amp 120volt service, K & T, and the original service was all porcelein fuse blocks and a porcelein disconnect, whicch disconnected the neutral, this of course was before we went to a grounded system. after installing the new panel 20 spaces, 100 amp main breaker, I discovered that only half the circuits were hot because the meter was also 120 volts and only one side was hot. So it was every other space on the panel.
But we do not switch the neutral, havnt done that in gotta be 60 years. There was an old wireing system for 3-ways, called the Carter wiring system, or aka Lazy neutral system where the commons from each 3-way would go to the light, and what we use today as commons were tied to 120 volts, but it was discovered that in one off position both the pin and the shell were both hot, eventhough the light was off. This was written out of the NEC in the 1930's but I still find it quite a bit today in older homes.
Then in that same period, I have also found where the hot would be at the light and the Grounded conductor would be wired up in a 3-way configuration again Knob and Tube, its stuff like this that makes this job what it is challanging and also very rewarding, but most of all enjoyable.
Posted By: bordew Re: More British peculiarities - 09/15/01 05:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bordew:
I did a revamp a few monthes ago. It was a 30 amp 120volt service, K & T, and the original service was all porcelein fuse blocks and a porcelein disconnect, whicch disconnected the neutral, this of course was before we went to a grounded system. after installing the new panel 20 spaces, 100 amp main breaker, I discovered that only half the circuits were hot because the meter was also 120 volts and only one side was hot. So it was every other space on the panel.
But we do not switch the neutral, havnt done that in gotta be 60 years. There was an old wireing system for 3-ways, called the Carter wiring system, or aka Lazy neutral system where the commons from each 3-way would go to the light, and what we use today as travellers were tied to 120 volts, but it was discovered that in one off position both the pin and the shell were both hot, eventhough the light was off. This was written out of the NEC in the 1930's but I still find it quite a bit today in older homes.
Then in that same period, I have also found where the hot would be at the light and the Grounded conductor would be wired up in a 3-way configuration again Knob and Tube, its stuff like this that makes this job what it is challanging and also very rewarding, but most of all enjoyable.
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 09/15/01 09:20 PM
I guess with a common neutral/ground busbar tied to ground it would be pretty superfluous to switch the incoming neutral. It became standard for the main switch to open the neutral here because of our N/G isolation.

On 3-phase panels for commercial service, though, the main switch is only 3-pole, with a non-switched neutral.

There are still some old 1920s/1930s fuseboxes in older homes here as well, wood cases with porcelain fuse holders (and the crude rewireable carriers I've mentioned elsewhere). It was common practice to fuse both hot and neutral to each branch circuit during the 1920s.

We didn't have knob-&-tube wiring here, but very early systems used individual wires laid into grooves on a wooden backing, the whole lot then being covered by a wood front panel.
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 09/15/01 09:26 PM
Just another thought on Edison lamp holders:

Are bedside/table lamps on sale there now always fitted with a polrarized plug?
Posted By: Dallas Re: More British peculiarities - 09/16/01 07:40 PM
Heck, I had to get up and look if the lamps had polarized plugs [Linked Image] They are, the new ones at least.

Paul, I just gotta say that anybody that drink warm beer that strong, and with a head that you can stand a spoon up straight in, is fairly peculiar to start with. [Linked Image] Refrigeration is a good thing! [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 09/16/01 11:14 PM
I never acquired a taste for any beer - warm or cold!

You should try some of the coffee served over here. I took to drinking it black when I was in America, but as soon as I got back here I had to put milk in it to be able to drink it.
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 09/16/01 11:17 PM
P.S. You might be pleased to know that if you ever visit England you can get Budweiser over here now. We've even had the frogs on TV.....
Posted By: Dallas Re: More British peculiarities - 09/17/01 03:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by pauluk:
I never acquired a taste for any beer - warm or cold!

You should try some of the coffee served over here. I took to drinking it black when I was in America, but as soon as I got back here I had to put milk in it to be able to drink it.

Sounds like that stuff my daughter brought back from college. Closer to syrup than standard coffee. They drink it like soda pop, too!
Posted By: Hutch Re: More British peculiarities - 05/28/02 08:50 PM
Paul,

One peculiarity of British 3-pin plugs (both old 5A and 15A and new 13A) you did not mention here – though you may have done elsewhere – is the dual function of the earth (grounding) pin which, being slightly longer than the others opens the gates that normally cover the live and neutral holes in the wall socket (receptacle). I think this feature is a great safety feature as it prevents any exploration by small fingers of the live parts. Other systems around the world like the US and Australia/NZ seem to rely on their small size but it still makes me feel uncomfortable.

I remember a discussion I had with an American colleague over a plug in 9V transformer unit for a portable CD player. He wanted to know what the third pin was for at the top. I told him it was the earth pin.

“But it’s plastic!”, he says.

“Ah! Says I. That’s to open the gates on the live and neutral holes.”

He was quite fascinated and commented positively on the feature. It also stops a common US problem of breaking the grounding pin off – you’d never get the plug in the socket.

Cheers,

Hutch
Posted By: sparky Re: More British peculiarities - 05/29/02 10:36 AM
almost kid proof....almost...
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 05/29/02 04:24 PM
I think we did touch on the subject of shuttered sockets a few months back in another thread. Every electrician here has to perfect the knack of opening the shutters with his meter probes for voltage checks!

The downside to the fact that the BS1363 13A plug always has an earth pin is that even a small appliance is fitted with this bulky plug, although the old BS546 15A type is even heftier.

There are some newer 13A sockets on the market here with a new design. These have a shutter which rotates slightly to uncover the line & neutral and no operating pin in the earth/ground hole. There must be equal pressure on both sides of the shutter before it will turn.

You mentioned the Australian/NZ outlets (for those who aren't familiar with these, they have three flat blades very similar to those on American plugs).

I once saw a design in an Australian catalog for a shuttered version of these. The small plastic disk containing the entry holes in front of the connections was pivoted at its center and sprung shut. To insert a plug, you pushed it into the holes on the shutter, turned it slightly to align it and then the plug would go right in.

P.S. Hutch, I'm curious: Are you actually in South Africa?


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 05-29-2002).]
Posted By: Hutch Re: More British peculiarities - 05/30/02 04:11 AM
Paul Said...

P.S. Hutch, I'm curious: Are you actually in South Africa?

Hi Paul,

Actually, I've been living in the States for the past two and a bit years though previously I lived in RSA since 1982. I was born and brought up in the UK prior to running off to the colonies. I enjoy woodworking and have a nice selection of tools which needed custom wiring in an RSA garage with initially just one socket and light switch. Having a load of 240V gear in the USA initially presented problems but these have been overcome.

I am not an electrician by trade but I have a good understanding of the physics/technical aspects thereof and take great care/pride in doing work both safely and properly/to code. Having experienced three different systems, plus viewed others such as Oz, I am always fascinated by the differences and the pros and cons of each country’s code and methods. I must confess that here in the States, my first impression was that things were a little old-fashioned with the wrapping of wires around terminal screws and the use of wire-nuts; proliferated by the conventions of pig-tailing – i.e. only one wire around a terminal. I still feel much easier with chocolate-block connectors and grub-screw couplings on outlet-fittings that are designed/intended to take more than one wire and act as sound junctions in themselves rather than stuffing a box full of copper and wire nuts. Hey, but it’s learning about new methods that keeps life interesting.


[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited 05-30-2002).]
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 05/30/02 09:34 AM
Hutch,

I spent some time working out in the U.S. as well. I'm in England at the moment, but still working on becoming an ex-pat again as it's just getting so expensive to live here now.

I know what you mean about comparing the various systems in different countries. There are many aspects of American wiring that I prefer over British, such as the use of decent depth boxes for switches and receptacles. Compare them with the typical 1-inch boxes for twin sockets here where there are sometimes three 2.5 sq. mm twin & earth cables jammed in.

About the only aspect of typical American domestic wiring that bothers me is the use of a combined neutral/ground wire for dryers and ranges, but that has been amended in the NEC to require new installations to be 4-wire, so at least that peculiarity should gradually disappear.

My background is as an electronics engineer rather than starting as an electrical apprentice, so maybe I see some aspects of wiring in a different way to those who have been trained (indoctrinated?) in the IEE school of thought.

As you'll see from the many discussions we've had here, for example, I'm not a fan of the British ring circuit, even though most electricians here express surprise that other countries are "backward" in not using it. I also try to get beyond the IEE's recommended/approved circuit arrangements and point out that there are other arrangements which might be equally suitable, if not preferable in certain circumstances.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 05-30-2002).]
Posted By: Redsy Re: More British peculiarities - 05/30/02 11:28 AM
pauluk,

Are you sure we're not the peculiar ones?
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 05/30/02 07:30 PM
Well, the rest of the world often looks on the English as peculiar. O.K., let's face it: The rest of the world looks on as all as being somewhere between mildly eccentric and raving mad! [Linked Image]

I guess every country has things which seem peculiar to the outside world, and in large countries like the U.S. things can seem strange to someone from another state. But doesn't it make life more interesting?

Just imagine if McDonald's had been given the franchise for creating the world! [Linked Image]

Oh yes, and the cewrtainly are things in America that are quite different, certainly to anywhere in Europe. But I like it that way....




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 05-30-2002).]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: More British peculiarities - 09/05/02 07:31 AM
Paul,
Just to add another iron to the fire,
Over in NZ, here our main switches are
Two Pole types, but we use the second pole
to isolate the Hot-Water Pilot Wire, this
feeds the HW Circuit, as well as a
Night-Store heater, if one is installed.
But in NZ, we never switch the Neutral,
this has to remain continuous,under our
Regs,(This is where it enters the
switchboard, that the Neutral is not switched), it is connected directly to the
Neutral Busbar, by use of a(normally 16mm2)
crimp lug, held with a washer and a nut,
and an extra lock-nut.
This connection must never be broken,
apart from when testing is required,
it is actually dangerous to take the Neutral off of the Neutral Bus, if the mains are still connected,you never know
wether or not the house next door has a
Electrical Fault in it, this is one of the
downfalls of the MEN System.
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 09/05/02 07:30 PM
One of the things that makes the U.K. supplies "interesting" is the three different earthing/grounding systems in use (see the diagrams in the Tech. Reference area).

At which point is the house earthing lead bonded to the neutral in NZ? Is it at the distribution panel, American style, or is it before the meter where the service enters the house, British style?

(The latter refers only to our PME -- same as your MEN -- system of course; in the other arrangements there is no neutral-ground bond within the house.)



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 09-05-2002).]
Posted By: Trumpy Re: More British peculiarities - 09/24/02 08:00 AM
Sorry Paul,
I don't think that I was clear enough about the Earthing arrangements, over here.
The earthing lead, that comes from the earth stake, runs directly to the Earth Busbar and is connected via a crimp terminal and with the same type of connection as the Neutral.
The Earth conductor must be in one continuous length, no joins what-so-ever.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 09/24/02 10:05 PM
O.K. on the continuous earthing lead, but what I was getting at is at which point is the earth tied to the neutral under your MEN system?

E.G. In America the main distribution panel has a common neutral/ground busbar to which are connected both the incoming service neutral and the main grounding electrode conductor to the rod. Under the British PME system we have separate earth and neutral busbars in the panel, and the earth busbar is connected to the incoming neutral just ahead of the meter.

At which point is your bond made to the neutral?
Posted By: Trumpy Re: More British peculiarities - 09/25/02 08:13 AM
Paul,
The term Multiple-Earthed Neutral system of supply, may help you.
The Neutral is terminated at the 'Star-Point'
of the Star side of the Delta-Star(11kV/400V),Berm Transformer, the Neutral is also earthed at various points along the lines, out of the secondary side of the X-former, just depends upon the length of Radial run, normally we like to earth the Neutral at every point possible, but this is also done at every consumers installation via the N-E Busbars. [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 09/25/02 07:15 PM
Same principle as the British PME (Protective Multiple Earthing) where we have multiple earths along the run of the neutral.

So are you saying that the neutral-earth bond at the house is actually between the neutral & earth busbars in the panel?
Posted By: Trumpy Re: More British peculiarities - 09/30/02 07:31 AM
Yes, exactly Paul, it is done to keep the line-earth loop resistance under control.
Posted By: pauluk Re: More British peculiarities - 09/30/02 09:35 PM
Sorry for any confusion -- I was just trying to establish beyond doubt the exact point in the installation at which you have neutral and earth bonded together.

In the U.K., the neutral and earth busbars in the distribution panel are kept strictly isolated. The N-E bond is made only at the incoming service block before the meter.
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