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Posted By: pauluk Govt. Data Security - 06/04/04 03:53 PM
Last year I acquired a huge batch of old computers and boxes full of spares. I've been going through them gradually and a few days ago I finally got down to four old IBM PC/AT machines which had been sitting in somebody's garage for years.

The damp had corroded some parts beyond redemption, but I salvaged a few spares and got one system up and running. All four systems had stickers on them indicating that they were once the property of H. M. Treasury in London.

Well, I got quite a surprise when I fired up one of the old 20MB hard disks and found a copy of WordStar complete with hundreds of confidential treasury letters and memos intact!

The most recent files are dated around 1988, which sounds about right for when the treasury would have decided to upgarde to new machines (tax-payers expense, of course).

I'm sure that data is all water-under-the-bridge now, but no doubt that at the time the machines were sold off somebody in finance could have made good use of it had they stumbled upon it. Oh, and there are one or two letters indicating the views of quite high-up officials about the appointment of certain individuals to various treasury positions. (I'd tell you more, but then I'd have to shoot you... [Linked Image])

Wouldn't you have thought that the government would have wiped these disks before letting them out of the building?

Let's hope that their data security has improved a little since the late 1980s.
Posted By: nesparky Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/05/04 07:13 AM
Paul
Why do you expect common sense, foresight, or intellenge from a beaurocratic organization?
IMHO the only reason most of those clowns have a goverment job it the would get fired from any other job that did not have the excessive civil service protections.
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/05/04 05:06 PM
Officially, it may have been reasoned at the time of disposal that “power switch off” meant “data no longer accessible” or “data properly encrypted.”
Posted By: Scott35 Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/05/04 05:59 PM
Quote

found a copy of WordStar

Wordstar!!! Alright!!!
HTML Tagging for Word Processing [Linked Image]

No Dongles needed for accessing stuff on the drive?

Anyhow, sounds like a fun look back to the 80286 days!

Scott35
Posted By: BuggabooBren Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/05/04 06:45 PM
Ahhh, WordStar2000 was where my intro to desktop computing all began... back in 1987 or so....

Working in the government arena, surely you jest that they'd think of all of the security measures needed... they probably put the computers out in the hall until the janitors came to wax floors or clean carpets and someone completely out of the loop was asked to 'move them or get rid of them, yeah they're ready to go...'
Posted By: mvpmaintman Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/06/04 12:35 AM
Treasury and Intelligence may be an oxymoron just like Miltiary and Intelligence.

I live near an Army post that has a DRMO office (Defense Reutilisation Material Office) their idea of disabling most things is to simply disassemble all the parts and make sure no one bidder buys all the parts.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/06/04 08:53 PM
Yeah, shame on me for even thinking about putting "common sense" and "government" in the same sentence... [Linked Image]

Reminds me of some lines out of the BBC show Yes Minister:

Jim Hacker MP: Who knows about this Humphrey?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It's classified top secret Minister.
Jim Hacker MP:Oh, you mean everybody already knows?

Scott,
No dongles required. All just there on the disk for all to see.....


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 06-06-2004).]
Posted By: Radar Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/08/04 03:57 PM
Might be kinda interesting to see what kind of reaction you get if you just box the unit up and send it back to Her Majesty. You know, maybe include a short note of concern that her Treasury might be missing some data.

Seriously, the people in the disposal department probably had no idea there was anything in the box, and the job description of the previous user did not include disposal, or preparation for disposal, of old equipment. Bureaucratic to the core.

Radar
Posted By: pauluk Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/09/04 09:44 AM
Quote
Might be kinda interesting to see what kind of reaction you get if you just box the unit up and send it back to Her Majesty. You know, maybe include a short note of concern that her Treasury might be missing some data
Good idea, but the way our crazy "justice" system works these days, I'd probably end up with a visit from the "men in black" accusing me of being in possession of state secrets and looking for anything else I shouldn't have!
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Govt. Data Security - 06/18/04 09:10 AM
Scott35,
Quote
No Dongles needed for accessing stuff on the drive?
What is a Dongle?.
My old Commodore 64 came with a dongle, is this the same thing?.
Paul,
There was a case locally here, where some 17 year olds were on the Net, talking about a game that they had been playing.
One of them had a file that he sent to the other, titled "Osama Bin.exe" .
About half an hour after the file transfer took place the Security Intellegence service had him lying on the footpath outside his parents house, along with the Armed Offenders Squad.
Sure stupid name for a file, but what a real knee-jerk reaction from the authorities here, they also did the same thing at the other fella's place at the same time.
Wierd man!. [Linked Image]
Posted By: jooles Re: Govt. Data Security - 09/19/04 07:58 AM
In fact, apart from simply deleting the files they ought also to use a tool such as WipeInfo (part of the Norton Utilities) to ensure the data is no longer accessible by the use of third-party "undelete" or other data recovery utilities.

I believe a good platform-neutral way to achieve the same effect, after removing the files, is to write a little script that creates a single file that fills the entire volume, and containing repeatedly the character 7, and then again containing repeatedly the character ¬

The bit patterns for these chars are 0101 0101 and then 1010 1010. So, every bit on the disk surface will be cycled at least once, rendering the original data unreadable by any but proper forensic techniques.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Govt. Data Security - 09/20/04 05:46 AM
Quote
What is a Dongle?.
Sorry, I missed seeing this question earlier.

A dongle was used as a kind of security device against the use of pirated software. It was just a small hardware device connected to a specific port on the machine, and the program it was supplied with would check for its presence before it would run.

Quote
One of them had a file that he sent to the other, titled "Osama Bin.exe" .
About half an hour after the file transfer took place the Security Intellegence service had him lying on the footpath outside his parents house, along with the Armed Offenders Squad.
Uh-oh, maybe I should be glad I'm not in NZ then. I just recently downloaded a few humorous MP3 files with titles including "Taliban" and "Bin Laden." [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Posted By: pauluk Re: Govt. Data Security - 09/20/04 05:50 AM
Quote
In fact, apart from simply deleting the files they ought also to use a tool such as WipeInfo (part of the Norton Utilities)
Welcome to ECN Jooles.

Many people don't realize that deleting a file on most systems doesn't actually erase its contents. The Norton wipe utility is one I've used for years -- Very useful when getting rid of surplus disk drives and you want to be sure nobody will go snooping around for your old data.
Posted By: jooles Re: Govt. Data Security - 09/20/04 10:38 PM
Dank U wel / Merci beaucoup.

I am fascinated by a great number of the threads on the other boards here, and I am pleased to have been taught so well by all of you.

I hope is that I can help on the computer and internet board a little, and, like you, I am fond of old valve sets, and I have a general liking of electrical apparatus. I shall try to not be in your way, however!

Tot ziens / Au revoir / Ciao / Later, dude!
Posted By: pauluk Re: Govt. Data Security - 09/21/04 07:45 AM
Jooles,
I only just noticed that you're in Belgium.

Bienvenue, je crois que vous êtes le deuxième membre du ECN en Belgique. [Linked Image]

Great to find so many people with an interest in older equipment. Feel free to look back through the older threads and add to them if you wish.
Posted By: jooles Re: Govt. Data Security - 09/21/04 11:16 PM
Ja, ik zag de andere Belg.

Maar niet voor een tidje.

We are still over here; we're still doing it all wrong; driving the wrong side and using round pin plugs with no fuses in our bathrooms and eating all the witloof :-)

One question and this is the wrong forum, but I can't say which the right one is.

In my factory, there is a fuse for the earth connection in each building. In each significant one, there is a transformeur 15000V -> 400/230. It uses a system TN-NET and there is an earth fuse outside each building that has a supply like it. So, why is the fuse there, and I wonder what happens if it goes?
Posted By: pauluk Re: Govt. Data Security - 09/22/04 08:28 AM
A fuse in an earth connection? [Linked Image] I don't like the sound of that.

I've cross-posted your question in the more appropriate non-U.S. forum. Just follow this link:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000692.html
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