From the Email Box:

In one word? YES!

IMHO, BTW

-Virgil

Virgil,

Ok,
I agree that the meter creeping is what's causing the high bills.


Let me ask a slightly different question on his behalf. Has anyone seen this happen before or know of any possible causes?

Back aways I had asked something similar. It was in a situation where there was current on the Neutral from an external source.

Anybody out there got any ideas?


Bill

Lift your GEC, see if it sparks ( do so without introducing 220V thru your system, or isolate it from such ...

I have not seen a case like this.

My speculation is dielectric breakdown in the service entrance cable, possibly even a physical penetration.

How about some zinc oxide grease smeared between the poles on the main circuit breaker?

What is new and what is old in this installation?

How many watts is it drawing?

Will an ammeter detect the curent flow?

I have the impression that the question is from a Homeowner looking for possible answers. Therefore the tests may not be within their capabilities.

I can swear that I have seen this situation before too. But It was several years ago and I don't remember details except possibly also finding current on the Neutral with the meter pulled.

Ideas?

Scott already told us that the meter measures only energy (KWH) consumed.

I wouldn't want to be first to disbelieve him.

Tell the utility to put plastic caps over the load side meter plugs and re-install.
If the meter doesn't move, there is a short somewhere between the can and the main breaker.

If the meter still moves, tell Scott!

Replacing the service entrance cable is the most likely solution, unless the main breaker is contaminated.

The utility company covered the load side meter lugs with plastic caps today and replaced the meter. The meter still creeps!!

An ampmeter test did not show any current draw. Several other test were made between the meter and the utilities distribution transformer with no trouble indidcated.

A recording volt meter will be put on the meter for the next three days and the problem will be referred to the utilities staff.

>The utility company covered the load side meter lugs with plastic caps today and replaced the meter. The meter still creeps!!

Hey, Scotttttttttttttttttttttt!

>An ammeter test did not show any current draw.
Obviously a paranormal disturbance.
This thread should have been titled "My meter gives me the creeps".


Seriously, is there something in the area generating a tremendous magnetic flux?

Did they try a gaussmeter?



[This message has been edited by Dspark (edited 05-23-2001).]

Welcome Bill Wes..

this is something!,,,,,,,

The utility company covered the load side meter lugs with plastic caps today and replaced the meter. The meter still creeps!!

ok, we have isolated to the line side of the meter here.
as to the caps, does your meter have a 5th lug? , and if so was this capped?

>we have isolated to the line side of the meter here.
I think otherwise. They need to cap the line side too and verify that the meter doesn't move.

>as to the caps, does your meter have a 5th lug? and if so was this capped?
Very good point. And further more, did they test the meter in another socket to verify that the caps were providing the necessary isolation?

When all other possibilities have been ruled out, then one the remains, no matter how unlikely, must be true. Call the X-Files.


I just have this funny feeling that if I were there looking at it, the problem would vanish. But perhaps there is an outcropping of lodestone right there.

somebody call Muldar & Skully....

Several years back my meter did the same thing when I contacted the utility company they came out and as usual found nothing wrong so I shrugged my shoulders and let it pass then maybe 2 weeks went by came home in the afternoon and nothing worked went outside to check main breaker and found the meter and base along with my main panel melted to a pile of junk and laying on the ground ,we were blessed for what ever reason it all fell away from the house and only smoked the side after replacing every thing that creeping went away NO utility accepted no blame what so ever in this.Tell the guy to find what is causing it

Doc, would you be more specific about the everything that was replaced?

Were you having inflated electric bills as Mr. Wesley seems to be?

we had to put new weather head and pipe,new meter base and meter new breaker panel and breakers new wire cominginto house to subpanel new wire from utility company down into metar base panel and sub panel and seems like they came out in the middle of the day a few days latter and replaced the transformer in the area hope this helps

Why did you need a new breaker panel and breakers?

And were you having inflated electric bills before the meltdown?

In other words, did your bills go down after that?

I can imagine how the meltdown may have raised concerns that the transformer had been overloaded by the meltdown and should be rebuilt. That they replaced it does not mean that it is a prime suspect.

It sounds more like a major short in the service entrance cable.

well we had a high bill before everything melted and no real change after the melt down but the creeping went away and light bulbs were brighter afterwards along with seems brighteness of tv and the freezer and referigater ran smoother ,
As for changing everything what I am saying is everything was melted to nothing meter base and panel outside and it fell off of house which is what saved our home along with the good Lord the sub and wiring in house was melted at the main breaker in it and that main was charred badly so we ripped out everything.
DON'T get me wrong I never said that the transformer was bad just that they changed it out but done it while we were gone

doc....
a bad day for sure!

It sounds like your main breaker or SE cable shorted. Did it rain that day?

doc,

Was the siding ever replaced near this?
What type of siding was on the house near this?

Bill

Trying to post this message again, so formatting might be odd, due to copy/paste.
Scott.

I have a couple of Qs for the original poster on this meter creeping situation:

1: Is your service a 120 VAC 2 wire system??

2: Did the utility company isolate both load side connections??

3: Have they tried leaving the meter in circuit, then jumping across it??

4: What's the power quality over time look like??

5: Is there a possibility that the meter is connected backwards on one side?? or possibly the 5th lug position that's being mentioned here is not being removed??

6: Do you have any high power radio transmitters in the near area, or High Voltage Transmission circuits near your service??

7: Are you absolutely positive that they have used different meters with correct calibrations??

8: Also, are you 100% positive that there's nothing illegally connected to the load side of the meter, but ahead of the main breaker??

Be sure that if the utility company is using insulating boots for tests, that the boots are new, without scrapes or gaps, plus the meter is fitting into the clips, not slipping on the side of the clips.

There's a few tests that could be made to see what's going on when the boots are on. Test voltage drop across the meter with a DVM, run jumpers directly to the load side of the meter, then measure voltage drop and amperes on all conductors, run an electromagnet source near the meter and see if this causes it to creep, stuff like that.
Sounds like a simple leaking meter, or leaky circuitry.

How much did the meter move with the main breaker open?? Are all the poles opening?? Check this with a nominal load [+10 amps per line] flowing, then open the breaker and check voltage drop across it with a DVM. Also check voltage drop with breaker closed.

When checking voltage drop, use a DVM with low to medium input Impedance [nominal loading effect]. Check from the "Line" side on one pole, to the "Load" side of the same pole - not to ground!!
Start at the highest V setting, then work down to the lowest possible.

With a current of 10 amps flowing across a 100 amp breaker, expect a voltage drop of 3 volts max. [the DVM will measure 3 VAC].

Check amperes with a True RMS [high Hz] type meter. For low I levels, use a flow-through ammeter with high accuracy and low loading effect.


Scott SET

we know for sure that the fire started in the meter base on the top side which belongs to the utility company ,the type of siding is masonite which is hard as the devil,yes what little siding was charred was replaced,it could have been the service entrance cable but what caused it to break down who knows

Now an interesting note here our son has new home he calls me to come up and w/everything off u can see the meter barely move we called the utility company they come out next day and leave note that they would be back well that meter no longer creeps they say they did nothing so who knows but it is gone { the creep } NOW along with this his washing machine springs a water leak in it so he had to buy a new one now did creep cause the leak and the new one stopped it or did utility company do something strange things do happen with electrics. will do another post on another odd thing around my house with a night light and telephone

Doc,

When I was asking about the siding I meant if it was replaced before the Fire. I was thinking about the possibility of a nail through the SE cable after the meter and before the Main. I thought that might explain the "creep" and the fire.

Bill

Bill the cable was in rigid pipe coming to meter and then from meter to pael with rigid and then coming to sub panel a short rigid nippleand the siding was put on and then all the electric stuff added and had never been touched. You know the more iI think about this seems like they had been out { utility } 3 times prior to all of this happenimng and had to replace the connection on the neutral where they tied onto my wiring at I know of 2 times they did this.
DID u see the note about our sons house

I would like to see an explanation for how this melted anything inside the house if it started from above the meter.

I suspect that it started inside the house and burnt its way back to the meter.

soory to rain on u Dspark but according to a forsenic expert it started in the meter base and then went,was he wrong could be but at the time I believed him and still do i said this as been several years ago, but some of the things or still very etched in my memory ,I guess experts are wrong sometimes,if I still had a copy of the papers I would gladly send them to u to read but we finally threw them out when we could not get any where with the utility company.Bottom line is my meter no longer creeps

A leak in a washing machine somehow tied to the utility company? I think you need to call a catholic priest! If your showers start to run green pea soup, I would sell the house.