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Posted By: renosteinke Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/10/08 01:07 AM
[Linked Image]


I post this pic here, not because of the violations ... but because of some other issues, that might very well make complying with the code an impossibility.

This little gem controls the yard irrigation. I can imagine how the receptacle came to be mounted where it is ... opposite a receptacle inside the house. Placing it on the drive, up high like this, also ensures that it doesn't get hosed by the sprinklers. Some good points there.

Yet ... let's imagine that one were to make this receptacle code compliant. First off, the mandatory 'bubble' cover will stick out of the wall much further ... presenting additional hazards.
Nor will you find a cover with enough room to accept the 'wall wart' transformer.

While I did not examine this controller for a UL listing, I would not be surprised if it were UL listed. It would also likely pass the NEMA 'rain test.' Perhaps an oversight on UL's part, but there is no UL requirement that the transformer fit in a bubble cover ... or that bubble covers be large enough to accept them!
Nor do any of the codes, or standards, address the additional trim / impact hazard presented by large bubble covers.

The house is also wired in knob & tube ... which brings up two additional details.
First of all, despite the three prong receptacle, there is no ground. Put in a GFI? Sure, except for one thing ....
The older boxes, with their smaller dimensions, do not have room for a GFCI. You can -maybe- force one into the box, but the depth is limited ... and filled with soldered splices.

Tear it down? Rewire? Sure, the homeowner would agree to that ... just remember - that's asbestos cement siding you're looking at.

It seems that sometimes you just can't win!
Posted By: LarryC Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/10/08 02:08 AM
Are you SURE it is listed for outside mounting? In my very limited exposure to sprinkler controllers, most of them have been installed inside garages or other sheltered environments.

Is the bottom of the enclosure threaded to accept cord grips or conduit fittings?

Larry C
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/10/08 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by renosteinke
Tear it down? Rewire? Sure, the homeowner would agree to that ... just remember - that's asbestos cement siding you're looking at.

It seems that sometimes you just can't win!


Tell the HO they have to call a vinyl contractor when you're done. laugh

I'd go inside and, HO permitting, cut the drywall/plaster and lath out of that area to cut the box off the stud, then push it out and go new in the hole (that is if the new box fit the hole.)

Hmm, then you gotta call the plasterer and the EPA...

None of this solves the problem of the not-big-enough-for-the-wall-wart problem though.

Ian A.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/10/08 05:13 AM
I speculate as to the listing, and the location.
A large part of my speculation is based upon my knowledge of testing methods ... and the fact that everything after the transformer is low voltage.

The underside of the unit has a knockout that can be used to attach conduit. The same firm makes units for hard-wiring (no wall wart); I assume they just used the same case on both products.
FWIW, I find these "Virtual Rain (IIRC)" controllers to be both cheaper than, and superior to, the better known "Rain Bird" brand.

Locating a receptacle in a passageway - as this one is - is always problematic.
Posted By: venture Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/10/08 04:18 PM
Question, how do you feel about boxing it in? It would only need to be deep enough to cover the wall wart and the only desterbance to the siding would be some screws. Your thoughts. Rod
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/10/08 04:36 PM
Probably the best solution there ... make a little 'dog house' over it, open at the bottom, with a front you can flip open.

The result? Inside the box it would be a 'damp' location ... and depth would be as minimal as possible.

Guess I didn't think of that, as I'm no carpenter. When all you have is a pair of strippers, all your problems look like wires laugh
Posted By: 32VAC Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/11/08 12:00 AM
Mount the transformer in the roofspace or into the interior of the home (if allowed), extend the wires for the 24 volt supply from the wallwart to the controller-is this an option?

Another option: mount the unit in the laundry of the house, covers all the waterproofing problems and easy to find a supply.
Posted By: techie Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/11/08 12:36 AM
Don't rule out the bubble cover just yet.. It might fit, depending on the size of the wall wart.

I have used bubble covers with wall warts before, in places where I needed the wall wart to remain plugged in.

For instance, I used one in the bottom of a podium. A bit of hard foam to fill the space between the wall wart and the cover serves to keep the wall wart from falling out as the podium is moved, and the cover prevents people from trying the use the outlet, as opposed to the other outlets provided. I might have used a single receptacle in that example. It was a smaller wall wart for a Littelite.
Posted By: NORCAL Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/11/08 01:34 AM
Only solution is, use the proper sprinkler controller w/ a outdoor enclosure* or move it indoors like it should be.No need to use duct tape and silly putty fixes.

* There is housings made to mount controller in even has a receptacle installed in it,cant say if it has a UL or other label on it...
Posted By: electure Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/11/08 03:54 PM
The correct one: http://www.sprinkler.com/buy/virtualrain_controllers_outdoor

The incorrect one:
http://www.sprinkler.com/buy/item/virtualrain_controllers_indoor/4638
Posted By: pauluk Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/12/08 03:12 PM
Add this to the list of reasons why I don't really like the "wall wart" transformers. frown

Another solution: Get a suitably rated weatherproof transformer in place of this one, then convert the outlet to a proper weatherproof one as well.
Posted By: NORCAL Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/13/08 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by pauluk
Add this to the list of reasons why I don't really like the "wall wart" transformers. frown

Another solution: Get a suitably rated weatherproof transformer in place of this one, then convert the outlet to a proper weatherproof one as well.


The sprinkler controller is a INDOOR model, hence the wall wart.
Posted By: GilbeSpark Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/24/08 04:17 PM
Here's a solution for you. Mount a PVC junction box over it all so that you can bring everything inside the juntion box. Then silicone around junction box where it meets the house. That'll keep everything nice and dry. You can move the receptacle inside the box too that way you can fit in a box that will house a gfci and not worry about the transformer fitting in a bubble cover because you won't need a bubble cover.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/25/08 01:40 AM
Sometimes I feel I'm trying to row against the current ...

The receptacle in the picture, even if made "legal" with a GFI breaker and a bubble cover, still has a number of problems.

As they say in real estate ... location, location, location.

That thing in the bottom corner of the picture is a car's windshield. Even if the car misses the receptacle, etc ... they're still projecting into a pathway. Not a smart place.

Moving the receptacle isn't an easy chore. I am sure this location was chosen because there is a receptacle on the other side of the wall. The building pre-dates the "6 ft rule", so you're lucky to have more than one receptacle per room!

Then again, this house helps show just how much our lifestyle has changed. There were no sprinkler controllers in 1940, and even owning a car was somewhat rare. About the only electric things in the kitchen were the clock, and maybe the fridge ... some folks still had ice delivered, as well as milk, and did quite well without a fridge. Electric razors? Not a chance.

Yet, in all the remodels, all the coats of paint and new flooring ... the owners have yet to take a systematic look at the electrical and plumbing systems.

It kind of reminds you of how far we've come.
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/25/08 01:49 AM
Originally Posted by renosteinke
It kind of reminds you of how far we've come.


Yeah, one step forward, two steps back. Replace that asbestos with vinyl, but don't bother to update/fix the electrical or plumbing.

Ian A.
Posted By: leland Re: Outdoor Receptacle Problems - 02/25/08 02:59 AM
all the code stuff and logic is correct.

My opinion, with out rearanging the world, Perhaps too logical (and fun removing, (I do enjoy the creativity))And simplistic, relocate the LV wireing, position the controler in the garage on the existing ungrounded 2 wire ckt.

Aside from all that, how would you feel about driving the snow plow around that, or maybe even adjusting it thru a snow storm or just...... Never mind.. you bunch of fair weathered spoiled people!!!

Guess winter is getting to me! smile
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