Renosteinke

I agree that it is hard to make the install look good with the rules as written now for islands. One thing I saw that was pretty slick was they had installed a plugmold strip and had it foux (sp) painted to match the cabnets it looked like a piece of trim molding under the lip of the counter top. Rod

I guess I don't see what you guys see.

This island only requires two receptacles, One for each Island area broken by the sink.

210.52(C)(2)
Island Counter Spaces. At least one receptacle shall be installed at each island counter space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short imension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. Where a rangetop or sink is installed in an island counter and the width of the counter behind the rangetop or sink is less than 300 mm (12 in.), the rangetop or sink is considered to divide the island into two separate countertop spaces as defined in 10.52(C)(4).

[This message has been edited by mweaver (edited 03-04-2006).]

Unless I am missing something this is a peninsula, not an island. Islands are free standing.

John, I see your issue but feel the the one receptacle on the cabinet face satifies the requirement. I do think that I would have tried to add another receptacle along the backspace to the right side.

Hey guys, looking at this, which is quite ugly, brings up a question and a thought....

Q. Do they make a recep that looks like a recessed recep "clock recep" that could go in the backslash there?

Thought. If they made such a device or box that would house a recep, could it have a slider door, that closed when not in use. This way the slider door could be painted to match the surface.

The white receps just look like hell there sticking out like that...

Dnk...

The cleanest way I could think to do this would be with a plugmold strip.. mounted face down under the lip of the granite, with a granite bullnose just as deep as the plugmold.. There was a counter top guy I worked this with and he had some beefy (and pricey!) epoxy that we used to mount the plugmold to the granite. Backfed the plugmold from a GFCI outlet where the wall began. The disposal had some fancy pneumatic push button on the sink itself, so there wasn't anything really visible.

The area may be intended for rolling out dough, but the original owners might sell the place to someone that isn't a "roller".

For that reason, I'd say it's not just a design issue

From an "outsiders" view.
Why isn't there another duplex near the end of the counter?. (Towards us)
The more recepts people have, the least likely they are to use double adapters and other stupid stuff like that.

I can't tell if that left side is connected to anything or not. I am guesseing not since the op syas "island". If it is an island it needs one receptacle to the left and one to the right of the sink. The one in the end cabinet would not be required.

This is where good electricians are seperated from really good electricians. I would get receptacles to match the colors as close as possible. White would not be it.

Do you think any of these colors would match? Lutron Color Palette

Lutron does GFCI's, Switches and Deco outlets in some pretty nifty colors.. But they're a bit on the pricey $ide!

I like the way this discusion is going! Keep those comments coming.

I took the pic to emphasize the "dough rolling" area of the island. There is, in fact, quite a space at the far end of the counter ... in fact, the cabinetry you can almost see in the background is the refrigerator door!

I like the idea for attaching plugmold to the lip of the counter. I'm not sure ther is room on this one...there isn't much overhang...but it sure would be nice if the counter makers would work a bit with the electricians here! Unfortunately, unless the AHJ starts rejecting countertops, that's not likely to happen!

I agree that there at least ought to be another receptacle on that backsplash, near the end.

As for the colour of the devices...as luck would have it, another job of mine has an expensive metallic green paint on the walls; the dark brown of the trim works out really well. Heck, even black would be an improvement in my eyes! But- what the customer wants, the customer gets!

Reno,

It's the cabinetmakers you need to talk with. In the past 7 or 8 years, I've had to ask my cabinet makers to "hold the doors down" on the island cabinets when they are full-overlay. This allows me to install the plug mold below the countertop. I usually find a can of spray paint thats very close to the cabinets, remove the plug mold cover, and paint the metal cover. My customers love it. It is hardly detectable when done.

Going back to what mweaver said, 210.52(c)(2) says "at least" one receptacle in the counter area and does not exempt the rest of the counter from other measurement requirements. Who would only put 1 receptacle on that huge chunk of counter?

Fellows, please don't arrange receptacles in the panels. As HLCb' says, if the cabinetmaker is informed in time, he can arrange wider rails or stiles to accomodate stuff, or even rout pockets to set-back items so they look planned. I'd go with some symmetry in layout, as off-center arrangements always jar the eye. Brass always looks good with any timber. You can get brass Modern, Victorian Edwardian or Georgian receptacles in the UK. [ Georgian? -that's the 1820s! ], - in fact many metal finishes to complement cabinet styles are on the market, along with wood, [ pine, oak, beech etc. ]. Are these matching-type receptacles not available in the US?
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk

- gives a taster - click on Browse/Sales- switches /sockets

[This message has been edited by Alan Belson (edited 03-10-2006).]

Yes, Alan, it sure would be nice if cabinetmakers spoke to electricians once in a while!

I think I know how that receptacle came to be placed where it is in the cabinet panel.
The base there is actually two cabinets placed back-to-back. Both cabinets contain drawers. The receptacle was placed as far back as possible, so as to allow the drawers to operate.

I think the fact that this is an island is getting lost in some way here. You are only required to have one receptacle to the left of the sink and one to the right. That is all. There are no other requirements to be met. It would not matter if that area were 10x10 you would not be required to add more receptacles.

Finally, someone else (Electricmanscott) sees what I see.

This is an 'L' shaped island broken into two seperate spaces by the installation of the sink and only requires two receptacles, one at each side of the sink. No other code rules factor into this island space made into seperate spaces by the sink.

210.52(C)

By golly, you guys are correct...there is no "2 Ft rule" for kitchen islands.

I had missed that distinction- shame on me!

I read it over and over and didn't see it. Now I do. Thanks.

The 2' rule used to apply to islands and peninsulas, but they changed it. Was it '96 or '99? I can't remember, and I don't feel like looking it up. Bottom line, an island only needs one receptacle.

yaktx the island shown here requires two receptacles.

Guys,

Just for the sake of argument: is the raised breakfast bar behind the sink still part of this island? If it is and if it is wider than 12" then this island only requires 1 receptacle. 210-52 (c) (2)

HLCbuild

Hello code experts!
I stumbled onto this forum while researching island receptacle issues from a designer/installer's point of view-I am impressed with the breadth of knowledge that is out there! I am currently working with many high-end customers who do not want to see their expensive furniture grade islands ruined by electrical fixtures. I have devised an idea for concealing outlets below the counter in a tilt down arrangement. When not in use they would be concealed behind a drawer front. My electrician seems to think that if they are concealed they would not meet code. Any thoughts?

My customer didn't want to see her "ugly receptacles" either! So I hinged the false door panels and made them real doors!

Now that Scott's straightened y'all out, how about this:



I can also look at this and see a knee wall behind the sink, with a peninsula extending from the knee wall.

In this interpretation, the countertop in line with the sink would fall under the 2'/4' rule, and the receptacle on the end of the "peninsula" would be required once more.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't say concealing the receptacle could be cited as a violation, but requiring the end user to run the cord for their small appliance through a "doorway or similar opening" could potentially be cited.

210.52 (C)(5) requires the receptacles to be readily accessible. It then goes on to exclude receptacles in appliance garages from consideration as the required receptacles.

This section begins with 'receptacles shall be above' .... but then gives conditions for placing them below the counter.

Some might consider receptacles in a drawer to not be "readily accessible." Just concealing them behind, say, a flip-down panel would appear to be allowed by the NEC.

Unlike some of my other threads, this one was not started to focus on the inadequacies of the NEC. Rather, I wanted to focus cabinet designers on the NEC requirements ... so they could incorporate the receptacles into their designs.

I would not be at all surprised if, eventually, factory made cabinet panels come with receptacles already installed, listed for field assembly.

Since when have architects ever designed anything with the electrician, mechanical or even plumber in mind?

"Rather, I wanted to focus cabinet designers on the NEC requirements ... so they could incorporate the receptacles into their designs."--WELL SAID SIR! I can't begin to count the times I have had to re-design projects in the field to satisfy different code issues not addressed in the initial design process. There are many ways to meet these requirements and each situation is different depending on budget, line of sight, etc., but it is very hard to reconcile these issues in the field when the client has a pre-conceived notion as to what the project will look like. Is there a guide or summary of NEC that addresses the code requirements of kitchens and baths for designers?