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Posted By: Admin Static problem at the gas station - 05/23/04 03:11 AM
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Here's a clip from a Texaco station surveillance camera... Needless to say, people need to be more aware of "grounding" in more than one way...

-Randy
gasfireclip02-13-04

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 05-22-2004).]
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/23/04 03:23 PM
Is there anyway that I can save this clip? Right clicking the link or right clicking the image doesn't give me the option.
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/23/04 04:33 PM
Note that this appears to be a static charge from her clothes sliding across the seat or her hair brushing against her sweater. There is no grounding or bonding that could be installed to prevent this type of static discharge, short of using a bonding strap to the person, like the wrist straps used for working on sensitive electronic equipment.
Don
Posted By: DougW Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/23/04 09:17 PM
Could you make a "Static Dissapative" overlay for the touch pad keys on the pumps? (one of the problems with the "ultra modern" plastic shrouded pump assemblies - no metal to inadvertantly ground to)

Possibly an intentional "static point" (think lightning rod, but like a small metal button) that would be farther down on the grip of the handle, away from the metal nozzle itself (and thus out of the "explosive range" area), with a GC following the hose to the pump, that would provide a discharge point other that the nozzle or fill tube?
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/23/04 09:27 PM
Doug,
All of the listed dispenser hose have a metallic grounding element as part of the hose and it is bonded at both ends.
Don
Posted By: walrus Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/23/04 10:34 PM
I can assure you that pump manufactures take grounding to heart. Any metal parts that are surronded by plastic( a card reader for example) are connected back to the frame.
Hoses do have a wire in them for that reason but they can and do break. Some fire depts. make stations check to see that it is whole.
Static from newer vehicles seems to be a real problem. In the winter I get a staic shock from my 2003 GMC every time I get out of it. I believe if you read the warning label posted at all Mobil stations it instructs you to touch the pump before grabbing the nozzle. It also instructs you to leave nozzle in the car in case of fire.
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/23/04 11:34 PM
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I believe if you read the warning label posted at all Mobil stations it instructs you to touch the pump before grabbing the nozzle.
Do you really expect the general public to read and follow instructions?
Don
Posted By: CRM Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/24/04 12:11 AM
The diesel pumps in my area have a grounding clamp you are required to clamp onto the metal of your vehicle, but I could never figure out why the gasoline pumps don't have this. You can't make sure the customer actually uses this clamp, but its in their best interest to do so.
Posted By: walrus Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/24/04 10:54 PM
I've been working in and around gasoline equipment since 1977,
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Do you really expect the general public to read and follow instructions?

I expect it but I'm always disappointed [Linked Image]
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/24/04 11:31 PM
Our local ARCO, Chevron, Mobil & Union 76 stations all have warnings to turn off cell phones & pagers while fueling.. I see people daily yaking with a phone in one hand & the gas nozzle in the other...

BTW.. When I spoke of grounding when I sent the pic in, I meant as far as a person "grounding" themselves to dissipate static charges.. I "hope" the pump grounding would be proper! A "grounding point" like Doug speaks of here would be ideal away from the nozzle & where fuel vapors would be concentrated.. Now if we could get people to use them! [Linked Image]

-Randy
Posted By: Dave55 Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/25/04 12:14 AM
To save this just right-click on the address and "save target as".

Dave
Posted By: walrus Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/25/04 06:43 PM
The warnings at Mobil specifically ask the customer to touch metal on their vehicle to disipate static charge. I looked today to make sure [Linked Image]. Not that I expect anyone to read it or actually do it. [Linked Image]
Posted By: ProCircuit Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/26/04 03:34 AM
Ryan, you can save the file directly: https://www.electrical-contractor.net/Forum/Safety/gasfireclip02-13-04.avi
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/27/04 01:54 AM
Thanks guys. [Linked Image]
Posted By: John Steinke Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/31/04 05:29 PM
Awesome video!

I agree that the static appears to have been caused by her clothing; you can see her undo the 'static cling' of her trousers to her (probably nylon-wrapped) legs.

"Mythbusters" did their best to set off an explosion with a cell phone- and failed. I think we can discount that fear.

Her behavious was exemplary; while she should have left the nozzle in the car, she did shut off the flow before leaving for help.

Untill recently, you never heard of this sort of thing- but you DID hear of people driving off with the nozzle still in the car! Saw some real nice fires from that!

The only remedy that I can think of is to incorporate flame detectors in the design, to shut down the pumps when this happens.
Posted By: Lostazhell Re: Static problem at the gas station - 05/31/04 06:16 PM
More info on gas pump fires & safety
http://www.pei.org/static/

-Randy
Posted By: ThinkGood Re: Static problem at the gas station - 06/01/04 02:14 AM
Here in NJ, there is only "full-service" (rather than self-service, though the service isn't always so full...).

Are there any statistics about fires at gas stations, in terms of "full-service" versus "self-service?"

Thanks for posting that video. Almost makes me want to take the bus again... (Nah, forget that!)
Posted By: e57 Re: Static problem at the gas station - 06/01/04 08:43 PM
Ok! While sitting in the car right before the fire she did one or more of these things. Lit a cigarette, talked on the phone, started the car, turned on the radio, then rubbed a cat vigously against the cashmere sweater, or all of the above!
All of this in the two 30 second intervals that are missing from the film!

But note: She did not touch the frame of the car while getting out. In fact, on second look, it doesn't look like she touched the car frame at all from pulling in. The static is from the tires, when she pulled in from the freeway, or what have you. And it looks like her rear end was on the car when she reached for the pump. She not having touched the frame of the car during all of this, until her second contact with the pump, that was grounded. I think we need super slo-mo here!



[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 06-01-2004).]
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Static problem at the gas station - 06/01/04 11:22 PM
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The static is from the tires, when she pulled in from the freeway, or what have you.
That static would have been discharged when she first put the nozzle into the fill spout. The static is most likely from getting out of the car.
Don
Posted By: NJwirenut Re: Static problem at the gas station - 06/01/04 11:25 PM
Isn't tire rubber heavily filled with conductive carbon black to prevent static buildup?
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Static problem at the gas station - 06/02/04 12:51 AM
Haven’t been through there lately, but some years ago I remember gasoline stations on the Massachusetts Turnpike with some beefy dry-chemical extinguishing systems above the pumps out on fueling islands. They were roughly similar to those used in exhaust hoods of commercial kitchens. I have not seen anything similar Out West—just fuel-pump “kill switches” on storefronts.

I have noticed routine use of ‘attach-me-first’ static jumpers on fuel trucks at municipal airports.
Posted By: e57 Re: Static problem at the gas station - 06/05/04 05:43 PM
I was listening to "Car Talk", as I usually do on Sunday. And, they had a big thing about new tires, static shocks. And the thing I found interesting was accessory ground straps that hang from your car that yuou can install. Because the tires are giant insulators there's no dicharge. But they act like your sneakers when you were a kid shuffling around on carpet picking up static charge, so you could see the neat spark at the door knob. But why it did not discharge through all the things she did up to the flash point, I don't know. The answer might be her shoes, that might be insulating enough to not allow discharge. But contact from her butt on the car, hand to pump was. Now, i just went out to by van , and noticed that that the filler hole, tube, and my gas tank are plastic! I did notice that there is a wire there that runs into the tank from metal flap at the hole, and goes out to the frame. Maybe there's no cantact there?
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Static problem at the gas station - 06/05/04 06:52 PM
Complete with stylish lightning bolts… {common in desert environments} http://shop.store.yahoo.com/rodi/cus23317.html

Comic-strip point of view www.logsa.army.mil/WEB-PAGE/1999/562/10-11.pdf
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