Yes these pictures show a serious violation and the DIY homeowner who did this should have been locked up!

Too many DIY's do this type of work and people like you have to suffer!

How's the rest of the wiring?

I would not be able to sleep!

Well, sleeping is a small problem, but the much bigger problem is this NOT a DIY. This was done by the EC/Builder of the house. I bought the house during the construction phase and this is STANDARD workmanship. Please understand (I know this won't be popular) I see this kind of stuff out of qualified, trained, well paid electricians. I think laziness, and the almighty dollar come in to play a little too much nowadays. Please excuse my bitterness, when I think that my house could have burned to the ground and even worst case lost my children, I get angry.

Will the AHJ go after the EC who did the work?

Can you get a lawyer? I too would be bitter and you have every right to ensure the safety of your family.

Will you take a permit for the new work or does your area allow repairs without a permit?

What's the name of the EC?

I'm not sure if the AHJ will go after them or not. As for the repair, I kind of did it myself and called the AHJ on the following Monday. They will be coming out today to inpsect my work and the other items. As for permit, I don't think it was required for a repair but the AHJ will tell me.

As for a lawyer, that will probably cost me more money than replacing my house. But there are other ways to make my point. Even though they don't have much power the first is the BBB.

After I give them time to respond, I will be talking to most of the builders in this area and notifying them of the type of work to expect out of this company (if I could only be sure this is an isolated case).

Only then would I consider a lawyer but I doubt it will go that far.

Another question that I've seen pop up a couple of times here is how do you join AL wire to a copper wire. Obviously wirenuts don't work. And for the EC to spend $18 extra dollars to put in a recept and plug will be too much (don't want to drive up the cost of a job). Split bolts would take too much room. I guess what I would like to see is AL wire BANNED from the house (except the serive entrance).

bchase:

Welcome to ECN.

I didn't notice the aluminum ground wire at first...the burn marks were what caught my eye.

I'm no electrician, but c'mon! Even the DIY books warn about mixing Al and Cu without proper terminations. You have the right to be much more than bitter, my friend. If this EC wants a Darwin award , that's his own folly--but not at the expense of others! Did he run out of cable staples in the attic or something?

Was that cable in the attic aluminum as well?

Is aluminum wire still sold (smaller than service entrance)? I realize that there are existing installations from years back, but new construction 4 years ago!?

Scroll down to the Al/Cu connectors--second photo --I don't know when these entered the market. Does anybody on the board use them? (I just realized--the conductors, in this case, are too large for these connectors anyhow.)

Also, you mentioned that the breaker did not trip. What brand panel and breakers?

Are your circuit breakers rated for Cu/Al? (Is that something that is standard?)

We've discussed here before--many fire departments have thermal imaging cameras. There sure was reason enough to call 911 for an emergency response by the FD. That j-box must have been hot! I'm glad that nobody was injured.

Hopefully you won't find any other problems. (I would want to have the entire electrical system inspected by a "qualified person" after seeing something like this!) Make sure you have your camera ready to go so you have good documentation, and of course, so you can share the photos.

[This message has been edited by ThinkGood (edited 02-19-2003).]

I'll try to answer all the questions/comments.

No, the wire in the attic was not AL (this would be against the code). And I'm sure that (this is what I believe) what happened was the EC was daisy chaining the receptacles and when he got to the last one, he didn't have anyplace to terminate it so instead of removing it from the push-in part of the receptacle (which is a pain anyway), he just threw it in the back and thought no one would notice.

The panel is CH and so is the breaker, but I don't know why it didn't trip. As for thermal imaging (IR scans) this would not have helped since it was under the drop in range of the cabinets. I had to pull the stove out to get to this. By the way, I use an IR camera at work and have found many problems with it (mostly OL panels), but that could be a different discussion.

As for finding a qualified person to inspect this, I really am quite disillusioned. I'm not sure that I can trust anyone since time and money seem to drive this industry.

Bruce,
It does not appear that the juction box was bonded so there was no fault clearing path to cause the breaker to trip. The high resistance connection was producing high heat but not pulling enough current to open the overcurrent protectiive device. These types of problems will not trip the breaker until they burn off enough insulation to become a ground fault, or a short circuit and only at this point will the overcurrent protective device open the circuit. If the box had been bonded to the equipment grounding conductor, then when the wire nut insulation melted, then might have been enough contact between the hot wire an the box to trip the breaker.
Don

Wow, I missed that! Thanks for pointing that out. I should have realized that the grounding was not there and there was no return path. I just wonder, would an AFI breaker caught that (being no ground return path)?

Thinkgood:
In response to your question about the purple AL/CU wire nuts: I have used them with great success.
One inspector even commented to the home owner that it was rare that an EC knew about them, much less used them.
The drawback is cost - about a dollar apiece, versus pennies. This is why most don't use these.

On a separate note, was in an attic over the weekend to fix some flying splices made 8 odd years ago by a homeowner. They had removed a wall and thrown the extra wire into the attic. The splices were twisted and bare - that's right, no wire nuts or even tape. They were all live and in use. Sorry I didn't have a camera with me.

My concern at this point would be the wiring throught the house. To take such an approach to something that is a little more important (al/cu connections) makes me wonder about the stuff that is less likely to be an obvious problem but still a danger. As for a solution to this I would install a receptacle and cord as you did. Otherwise split bolts would be the way to go.

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 02-19-2003).]

Bruce:
Don explained the "no trip" situation, and Think Good spotted the Al/Cu wirenuts,

My two cents:
Have you attempted to contact the EC??
Have you contacted the builder??
Does your area have licenses for EC's? IF they do, that should be your first stop. Here in NJ, the State Board can be the consumers best friend.
The AHJ may be able to guide you in pursuing a solution to this situation.
John

Electricmanscott:
Thanks for the help. I do worry about the rest of the house and I have looked at many of the items that are truly a concern. My only problem is things I miss or haven't got to. To take off every cover, climb through the attic and dig through the insulation, move appliances and others will take a tremendous amount of time. I wonder if the builder had to pay me $20/hour to do this how much profit would he be still making on this house.

Hotline1:
Here's the change for the 2 cents
I haven't attempted to contact the EC yet, not until the inspector looks over everything. My one dealing with him during the building process was less than stellar.
The builder has moved out of the area (Augusta GA). He bought an old rundown mansion by the beach and is fixing it up to make his $$$$$.
There are licenses for EC's here, but I will need to talk to more people to understand what is involved and how to file a complaint. I am hoping the AHJ will help if we can ever get together.

I am really impressed with everyone on this board. I (wrongly) thought that I would see animosity and defense of a fellow EC. When I finally get around to building my own house (actually doing the work), I will be asking many more questions of you guys. Thanks for all the input. I'll let you know (if you are interested) what the outcome of this is.

Beware the Purple wirenuts! They could be more dangerous than anything you could rig yourself!

See http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/alreduce.htm

For something this size, I would use Al/Cu split-bolt connectors with rubber tape, or Polaris blocks.

This is I believe,what my yankee colleagues refer to as a "Hack Job" My question is how does someone who does work like this live with themselves?The money it would cost to do this correctly would be very little.Russell

resqcapt19:

My eyes must be playing tricks. I thought the box was bonded using an Al conductor--it looked like bare 2 twisted Al conductors, connected with the bare Cu conductor. The Al sort of disappears behind the insulated conductors in the photo.

bchase:


Please explain "OL panels." Also, it would be interesting to hear what the problems are with the IR camera.

Thanks.

i am suprised how did someone almost got away with cu/al connetion my self i will never use that arragement i will use split bolts or poralis connetion device.

also i notied the box in the second photo look like little tight. is that box is 4X4X11/2 deep?? if that so that is too small for # 6 wires anyway.

try to remeber the splice and the room in the box .

i use 4X4X21/2 or 6X6 X 2 inch boxes for # 6 cables for more felxiblty it is better to use larger box so dont have so much strain on the wires itself (it help to keep conneters cool someway to leave some room inside)

merci marc

ThinkGood:

No, the box is not bonded with the feeder. There is an AL wire that is tied to the cable for the range. The only real path to ground would be the metalic sheath covering the cable (not a valid path).

As for the IR camera. What I meant to say is that I use it in a heavy industrial environment. I (along with a technician) perform scans on the 13.8KV system down to the 120 V system. Of course, the emphasis is on the 13.8 KV and the 480 V gear. I still do many (NOT ALL) of the 120 receptacle and lighting panels while I have the camera out. The most common (and pretty much the only) things I find are overloaded (OL) breakers in the recept panels. It is common on a receptacle, to have those (NASTY) surge strips with enough plugged into it to pull 18-20A on 1 20A breaker. These show up very well in a panel. When I figure how to post a picture, I'll include 1. There are some limitations to an IR camera though. Temperature is not correctly shown most of the time. The ideal way is to compare with a past picture or with like systems (configuration and loads).


see this web site for good info. http://www.snellinfrared.com/inthepress/Rice.pdf


Of course, the biggest problem with IR scans of electrical systems is how do you see the load carrying components SAFELY. You CAN'T open the doors to the 13.8 KV switch while energized. There are 2 products that help with this. I will be trying each during our power outage scheduled for July. http://www.hawk-ir.com/
or http://www.squared.com/us/services_support/squared_services.nsf/unid/8454D5FB98F8666A85256B1B00681928/$file/infraredinspectionpage.htm

Hope this all works!!!!

yaktx:
Learn something new every day.
thanks for the update, will pursue other avenues for this in the future.
Jim

Bruce, i am an EC just about 70 miles south of you in Statesboro. As soon as you get the AHJ out there, find out who was the EC on your house. The General can not do the installation unless he was going to occupy the dwelling. This is state law! Once you find out who did the install, contact the construction division of the Sec. of States office. http://www.sos.state.ga.us/plb/boards.htm

You can file a complaint online but i suggest you call first for prompt action. The SOS will send an investigator out to check this ace electrician.

The AHJ might not be much help since they passed this inspection and they want to cover their own @ss.

There is legislation underway right now to require all GC to carry a license. This will make them liable to these types of issues.

Contact me via email if i can help in any way.

arseegee

Thanks for the link on who to contact. As soon as the inspector gets here, I will definitely pursue this avenue.