??????????????

I am with you Redsy, However a comment. I do not like wire ties in a panel. At some point in the future there will have to be some trouble shooting done. Then you have to cut off all the damn wire ties without nicking the insulation to find where the wire goes.

Oh yeah, nice key in the panel.

Scott

If I install ty-raps for neatness, I won't cinch them too tight. This provides wire management, while allowing enough movement to trace, remove and re-install conductors.

Those square Nylon thingys with the double face tape on them are guaranteed to fall off in a week.

I read this post three times, and then read the replies. Does anyone know what the "quote" under the pic means??????????
John

John,
It means that the pipe coming into the back of the box has been ground flush with the back of the panel and therefore has no locknut or grounding bushing so the conduit cannot serve as the ground(there is not a ground wire pulled in with the circuits.)He is saying that the fitting was not an electrical fitting so it did not meet the requirement of 110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling


[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 02-06-2003).]

John,

I agree. . .I can't articulate it, but when I look at the "locknut" on the "connector", I can't make sense of what I see.

I mean, this appears to be a 1" "connector" of some sort that I've never seen before. If it's been cut or ground down, it doesn't look like it was reamed.

Then there is the proximity of what appears to be concrete screw (the blue hex head) too close to the "connector" to have adequate purchase on the edge of the hole the 'connector" is in.

I need more information to interpret what I'm seeing.

In other words, this panel ain't grounded, right?

Is this a sub-panel?

In addition to the comments above relative to nylon ties; nylon ties also make for a very sharp corner if the extra is cut off without rounding the edges:

I was confused by the round "nut/washer". I think the fitting was a set screw connector that had the barrel cut off and is being used as a conduit nipple.

I agree with Stamcom, That looks like some sort of emt fitting that has been cut off.
Definitly something with a larger base fed through the hole and maybe fastened to the conduit somehow. Give the guy some points for creativity.

Keep a pair of flush cutting 4" side cutters in the bag just for tywraps. No sharp edges when you trim the tail, and you can cut them off without knicking wires. When I was in the airplane wiring business, we went through ty's by the gross.

TW

Thanks tx,

Now it all makes sense.

BTW,
I've gouged my arm on sharp ty-rap edges many times. The small flush cutting dykes do work nicely.

If you use your side cutters to twist the excess tie wrap off instead of cutting it,it will not leave a sharp edge.

it's hard to tell if it's a connector or a nipple,if it's a nipple they cut it to short and just made it into the box and put the locknut on. but no bushing. i like the key

i also like the plastic connector for the grounding conductor.thats approved for grounding.right

Stamcon, TW;

If the galvanized disk is the shoulder flange of a conduit connector, isn't what we're looking at in the photo wider than the usual flange? Also, I see a notch in the outer edge of the flange at 2 o'clock, and what might be another notch at 10 o'clock.

This puts me in mind of a stamped steel nut with a single thread. If this is the case, I see no evidence of paint removal to ensure a good bond.

Some additional info:

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 02-07-2003).]

Boy Howdy, P-fish! Those stickyback things are awful. Not to hawk Panduit so much, but if you ever need some that will last, try EMS-A-CO bases with epoxy glue in place of tape.

How does using a cable tie affect heat disbursal from the conductors? In other words, do you need to derate to create bundles of conductors?

I've found the trick with the square plastic thingy's with the double faced tape is to stick them, then leave them for a day. Then load them up. Apparently the tape needs time to "set". I've had some in service for years. Unfortunatly you can't do that when you are on a job, and need to get it done and get on with it. I have the luxury of time, on most of my projects.

It also helps to make sure that the wires aren't trying to pull them off, ie bend the wires so that the tywrap just keeps them there, don't use it to pull them there.

TW

It helps if you clean the surface before sticking them down, too. The little premoistened alcohol wipes from a drugstore work well.

Forget scraping paint! That's a concentric knockout hole, so you have to use an Eq. Bond. Conductor, and appropriate bonding fitting.

I'm not sure it is a fitting at all. It could be we're seeing the material that the panel itself is mounted to, and what has been cut off is EMT. ?

Back to the nylon cable ties for a minute. Have any of you out there come behind on a project where these were installed, with the tails cut off with a dykes or Kleins and done minor surgery on your hands and forearms? I know of an electrician that required stiches to close the would produced by one of these short tails.

A good practice is probably to turn the tie so the little "buckle" faces the rear of the panel before tightening it all the way.

That way all sharp edges are nowhere near someone's fingers.

Don't know if anyone is still reading old posts.... But reguardless of the connector, this is a three phase residential service?

Now the zip tie thing. Up here, ( San Fran )310-15 is required. Not just for that piece of plumbing nipple they ran through, but the zip tie too!

e57, 310.15 does not apply to bundles less than 24" in length, most times in a panel you would not exceed this, are they making you apply this for all lengths?




[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 05-30-2003).]

To iwire:

Exactly! From what little we can see from this picture, ( I figure this to be a Meter / Main with distriution. 12/24 100 - 200a Breakers in a single row up one side.) The conductors could be easily be more than 24".

And, the conduit "could" run half way through the house. From the picture alone we really can't tell.

I just figured I would chime in on those upset about zip tie knicks. Maybe just iliminate them?

And, I think the original point was that none of these circuits have a viable ground.


[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 05-31-2003).]

If this "connector" wasn't 1" tradesize, I'd say it was an airduct sampling tube cut off just past the flange. The notches on the flange aren't really deep enough either to support this theory, but perhaps it's something similar. Probably a work-around for not having the proper tool to make room in the masonary for a 1" connector. I'm assuming the enclosure is mounted to masonary by looking at the tapcon, but who knows, perhaps this assumption is also unfounded. In any case, it's clearly not street legal!

[This message has been edited by Surge (edited 06-04-2003).]

Maybe that is 'METALLIC COATED PVC WITH A NEW SNAPIN CONNECTOR' (doesn't require a ground)
I am sure you have all seen one, they are very common, they are UL listed under the code letters CRAP.

Pierre

Could it be a reducing washer with some kind of thin wall tubing maybe not emt but something else?