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Posted By: Admin Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/26/06 04:08 AM
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Home owner decided to install a drop ceiling and wanted the soft glow of lights above the cloth material that he used. Fortunately he was stopped before the soft glow became an open flame.

Alan Nadon
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Ron Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/26/06 11:47 AM
Alan,
Who determines the distance required from an incandescent bulb to combustibles? I'm not familiar with an easy referenced code to indicate a violation. I have a wall sconce that is sometimes very close to the curtains (depending on the position of the curtain), but I'm not sure it's a violation.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/26/06 11:58 AM
Ron,
Does it have to be an electrical violation to constitute disconnecting a thing like this?.
Common-sense would tell me that a thing like this can only end in tears.
Posted By: mxslick Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/26/06 06:24 PM
I would think the use of open-cleat lampholders, what appears to be zip cord and the nice flying splice from the ceiling box is more than enough to warrant the red sticker. Plenty of electrical reasons for a disconnect here. [Linked Image]

And since there is always the possibility of one of those incand. bulbs shattering and dropping hot glass and maybe sparks on the cloth, come on. What more do you need? [Linked Image]

A better solution would be an enclosed luminare, wired with proper methods and preferably flourescent. That would give the desired effect with minimal or no hazards.

edited to add:

And last time I checked, open cleat lampholders were hard to get and somewhat pricy. It probably would have cost less to do it right anyway.

[This message has been edited by mxslick (edited 07-26-2006).]
Posted By: energy7 Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/26/06 06:37 PM
Regarding the clearance issue, the closet code section (2002 - art. 410.8) would probably be a good place to start.
Aren't the distances specified because of "distance to combustibles" and "protection from physical damage" issues?
Posted By: Ron Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/26/06 10:05 PM
I'm not saying that the installation method is a good one, I'm suggesting that a keyless lampholder doesn't seem to be a violation. I was not able to see the zip cord or the splice without a box. Clearly those violations should be tagged, but the lampholder itself .... I'm not sure that is a technical violation of the NEC. That area is not a closet. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/27/06 10:41 AM
I claim that light installation (or at least the stuff used) is close to 100 years old! That's twisted cloth lamp cord! That stuff belongs into a museum!
Posted By: mamills Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/27/06 01:42 PM
Ranger: As strange as it may sound, that stuff is still available here. Our city recently completed a full remodeling/rebuilding project of a turn of the century railroad depot (the last century, that is [Linked Image]). The electrical system in the building was completely replaced, but the lighting fixtures throughout consist of the traditional (for that time) bare light bulbs in new brass sockets hanging from the 12' high ceilings with that twisted cloth covered rubber "drop cord" stuff. Really strange in a remodel where everything alse is completely code compliant - boxes, conduit, receptacles, circuit breakers, etc.

They were going for "atmosphere", I guess...

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 07-27-2006).]
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/28/06 11:25 AM
Yeah, you still get it here too, but the price is _real_ steep! So with that kind of job I'd guess old work.
Posted By: Alan Nadon Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/28/06 07:20 PM
Check NEC 2005 Section 110.3 (A) 5
Lampholders are not luminaires or else 410.65 would be the place to start.
Alan--
Posted By: HLCbuild Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 07/29/06 02:27 AM
I think 410.5 is the place to start
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 08/02/06 04:40 AM
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Yeah, you still get it here too, but the price is _real_ steep!

Here, that's some of the cheapest stuff you can find!!! :eek
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 08/02/06 09:40 AM
What???
Would you consider EUR 3.20/meter cheap?
If the US stuff in the picture is indeed new it even looks better than the German stuff I saw (in the old days that stuff was available in only a few colors and the new stuff doesn't even come close to matching the old colors).
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 08/03/06 02:44 AM
Well....the places I've priced it at sell it for less than that. I think it's about a dollar a foot.

More expensive than plain twin-conductor figure-8 cord, but not quite THAT expensive.
Posted By: Elviscat Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 08/03/06 03:13 AM
I think I might have messed up but 1.275 dollars a Euro, times 3.2 euros= $4.08 a meter, 3.28 feet in a meter, so $4.08/3.28 equals about $1.25 a foot in Europe, not that much more expensive
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 08/03/06 07:01 PM
Yup, Elviscat is right. Not that much difference. Cheap cords used to be considerably less than 1 Euro/m, i.e. less than a third of the cloth stuff. There must be a lot of overhead in the price of the cloth stuff since it's been the same for at least a year, whereas the price for off-the-shelf wires has doubled.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling - 08/07/06 02:59 PM
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And last time I checked, open cleat lampholders were hard to get and somewhat pricy.

They're available at any Lowes or Home Depot for only a couple of bucks. Ditto local hardware stores, you can easily find them there. I think I have two in plastic and two in porcelain.

I wonder what they'd be used for now? Guess the exposed terminals come handy when you're using it as part of some home-made test equipment.
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