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Posted By: Admin Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/15/06 03:37 PM
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4 apartment building.

Someone called an electrican but I don't think so.

Just after the landlord gets back from vacation and tried to get his electrican to upgrade a service at one of the buildings he owns.

Owner bought 4 new panels and a 4 bank square D meter and wanted it installed.

His electrican did not feel like finishing a 4 meter service. This is what it is left like with no good layout as to placing the panels and refeeding the circuits. My boss and I are stumped as to what the guy was thinking. He tried to power the service which cut from the service drop and could not bug into due to hearing sparks and wire making sounds in the couduit feeding the meter.

He tried to temp in the 2 panels for the 4 apartments cause he wanted to get the hell out of there. Only powered some of the apartments back up and some had no power at all in 90 degree weather. Only left one of the phases hook up outside (wish I too a picture of that mess too) with the neutral. Feed from the service line was not even safed off.


Check out the pics and see if it can take you a few hours to fix and find what circuits go to what apartment. I just want to pull everything off the wall and do it right. I know I am not great but even in my worst day I could not even think of doing something like this.

I know I am leaving a lot of things out about the story so if ya got any questions just post them.

Jet98 (Joe)
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Alan Nadon Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/15/06 04:19 PM
Just salvage the panels and start all over.
Alan--
Posted By: Celtic Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/15/06 04:31 PM
That was no electrician that started that job...looks like a hack job from the word "GO".

I wouldn't be angry with the hack - he just created a HUGE job for a competant electrician [Linked Image]

Now if I were the LL...I would very, very POed at the hack....but you get what you pay for.

Being as this appears to be in NJ, in an area I service (possible Harrison area) ~ based on the PSE&G stickers ~ I would take this bull by the horns and staighten it out.


BTW, I would add a 5th meter for the house circuits.

[This message has been edited by Celtic (edited 07-15-2006).]
Posted By: trobb Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/16/06 12:45 AM
"Neat and workmanlike" anyone?
Posted By: mamills Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/16/06 04:20 AM
"HORRIBLE" is the word that comes to my mind when I look at this mess. Someone's gonna have to spend a lot of time ringing out all of these circuits and figuring what goes where. Time to start from scratch.

I'm interested in those meter cans. Is the power supplied to them from appears to be some kind of duct behind them?

What was originally connected to the wires sticking out of those nipples beneath the first two meters?

Mike (mamills)
As I usually say YUCK WHAT A MESS.
i AGREE WITH THE OTHER REPLY. Start the whole thing over. I may be only a third year apprentice but the best and safest way to do this is to start over. Its the bosses licence that owns the place when you finish. No way did a electrician do this. Good luck and please charge accoringly.
Posted By: JJM Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/16/06 05:46 PM
I just love all how all the BX is connected in the panel on the left with no grounding/bonding.

Speaking of grounding/bonding, I don't see any in either of the panels, though I guess when that uninsulated neutral lug on the left panel touches the case, it could at least considered "bonded".

Also seems to be a little Romex connected into those fuseboxes pictured on top, despite the fact the building wiring is largely BX; probably some handyman electrical "improvements" and "upgrades".

Just curious, on those new BX connections on the right panel, were red heads used?

The best though is the seemingly live and very short hanging conductors from the left-most meter. Were they planning on extending those into a panel, or what?

Joe

[This message has been edited by JJM (edited 07-16-2006).]
Posted By: Luketrician Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/16/06 06:07 PM
Good point on the liability issue. Once you start working on it, you have to tear back all the way back to the point where you feel confident that there isn't any hidden violations that could land you in court. As far as neat and workman like, I doubt that all of that existing mc would reach any of the panels when they are routed and strapped accordingly. Might as well mount a trough close to the ceiling to catch all of the mc. Then install terminal strips to change over from mc to say stranded THHN. I would comment further on the other obvious, and numerous violations, but this is turning into a novel. (Next)
Posted By: ShockMe77 Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/30/06 12:26 PM
I love fixing up services like this one. I really do. In fact, I wish I could do a service every single day of the week! Set up your tools, some lights, a radio, and away I go.

I understand the person who installed this is competant. This explains why both panels are butt up against each other so it looks nice and neat. The question is, how nice and neat is going to look when the panel covers are put on and they overlap one another? LOL
Posted By: RSmike Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 07/31/06 05:16 PM
But....And....Then the...Why....Who... Isn't.....

You didn't happen to find the ashes from a sacrificed code book on the floor?

I would start by labeling everything and where it goes...or at least went. Then I'd start over with a nice new 4x8 sheet of plywood on an empty wall. Send the tenants for ice cream....for a couple days....

RSlater,
RSmike
Thats truely awful. I hope whoever started this gets strung up for it. Realistically, though, I have seen situations like this before. Some tenant / former tenant / tenants friend offers to "Help out" by making a few electrical upgrades, and, next thing you know, this happens. The landlord may have saved a few bucks at first by not hiring someone qualified, but, in the end, they pay. Or have no power.

Additionally, in the area i'm from, we are not allowed to use flex line like that for runs more than 6 feet. I have to check, but, I also think we cannot use non-metallic cable.
Posted By: mxslick Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 08/12/06 05:29 AM
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He tried to power the service which cut from the service drop and could not bug into due to hearing sparks and wire making sounds in the couduit feeding the meter.

Well, duh!! Look at the left hand panel in the first pic and you'll notice the hack has landed both hot legs on the same (left side) lug!!

Placing a dead short on the poco feeder like that, he was lucky he wasn't blown to bits trying to connect it.

Natural selection gave this clown a huge break!!
Posted By: RSmike Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 08/28/06 05:08 PM
Good eye MX. I didn't notice that until you mentioned it.

How this didn't explode is amazing. Perhaps the terminations were so poor that it didn't lower the resistance enough to be a dead short....hence the sizzling mentioned. Wow!

RSlater,
RSmike
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 08/28/06 11:53 PM
MX:
Some (not all) of these OLD services were/are only 120 volt, based on the Edison fuses. I can't see the meter enough to read the tag.

As the barrel locks appear to be in-place, and the nipples under the meter pans look 'aged' the offender probably removed whatever the nips went to.

John
Posted By: mxslick Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 08/29/06 02:10 AM
HotLine1:

If those were the older A base meters, yeah, I could see that as a possibility. But, all four meters appear to be modern Form 2S and I don't think barrel locks were used for that many years....and:

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Only left one of the phases hook up outside...

...so I think this is and was a 120/240v three wire service. [Linked Image]

Now the service to my apt building, well......let's just call it the "Little Service Of Horrors!" [Linked Image] (Pics and a new thread coming soon to a forum near you.)
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 08/30/06 12:48 AM
MX:
The 'old' PSE&G meter pans, as in the pics the 'hole' where the barrel locks are used to be 'sealed' with a porcelain button. The PSE&G meter tech and wiring inspectors have a nifty tool that they would 'break' the porcelain, insert thru hole, it 'sprung' into a "T" inside the hole, and with a twist & pull, opened the latch that held the front cover on.

John
Posted By: mxslick Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 08/30/06 01:05 AM
HotLine1:

Wow! That's an unusual setup for a security lock...thanks for the details. From the pic it was hard to tell what was going on there....

Have you seen many of the Form (n)S style meters in 120 volts? So far the only ones I've seen have been 240 (Form 2S) and the various three-phase models.

I have a pair of ABB electronic meters, one is Form 2S (I use it to monitor total power used by my A/V rack [Linked Image] ) and the other is a Form 5S.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 09/01/06 01:37 AM
MX:
Believe it or not, I came upon a multi-meter mess similar to this doing inspections.

I'll pack my camera & take a few shots.
These will be 240 volt, and in a comm building.

BTW, before the old covers were re-installed, a new porcelain button was inserted from the backside. The barrel locks replaced the porcelain 'seals'.

As to the meters, I have ran across quite a few 120 volt meters, although none recently. There are two types of adaptors, one two wire, one three wire, supplied by PSE&G.

Now I think I really 'dated' myself with this one.

John
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: Fixing a Mess that Someone Left - 09/24/06 10:54 PM
Ya know what I'd say when I saw this? "Job security!" Ya know what else I'd say? "Gimme the phone book, I'm calling the clown that did this!"

Ian A.
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