Thread moved from Occupational Safety Area:




The carpenter was using a table saw a compressor and a boom box all on one ext cord clamped to the main

{Message edited to put pic on ECN Server and to clean original posting up}

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-03-2005).]

Vlad,
Is that lower pic just a thumbnail or is there a bigger pic associated with it?.
If there is a bigger version of it please send me a copy so that I can put it on the ECN server.
Cheers,
Mike.

Oh and BTW, that carpenter needs shooting, doing a thing like that.
Not to say I haven't done the same thing before, but, I know how to insert the appropriate fusing into the live wire.
It's the level of protection (or lack thereof) that matters.
GRRR.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-03-2005).]

the worst part of all this is that all the trades keep opening my panels. then after they are finished doing there stupid stuff to get power they just leave the cover off. so at the end of the day day I drive around the sub division and close up panels! !!!I wish there was a way to lock the panel covers on!!!

There is a certain mentality that takes pride in its' own "cleverness."

It's hard to remain professional when you're surrounded by cheapskate contractors and semi-trained "professionals."

They're afraid to pay you to run some cords correctly..instead denying reality and leaving it to the snuffies to scrounge and improvise. These are the same guys who think it's perfectly reasonable to eliminate such "frills" as trash collection, dumpsters, and toilets.

I don't know that any solution is possible.

Be nice if you could lock the panel but then you run the risk of some disgruntled carpenter taking a prybar to the panel cover.

Why not install a panel GFCI? That way the other trades can get some power safely without opening the panel.

Or won't the boss pay for that? Seems to me that be cheaper than paying you to close up panels every night.

 
Not condoning the carpenters' actions, but there may be cases where this product is applicsble: http://www.littelfuse.com/cgi-bin/r.cgi/en/prod_series.html?SeriesID=1231&LFSESSION=NvXMX39edH

there is an 20 amp gfi just under the panel!! they just keep poping the breaker, so they hot wire instead.sometimes there are 5 or 6 ext cords hooked to a couple of power strips "the kind you would use for your computer" and everyone running power tools!!

Half-dozen panel GFIs, one for each trade.

I don't have any suggestions. I suppose these guys need to get their work done too. Of course if some fool manages to electrocute himself, guess who's going to catch hell.

Another method I have used (for DIN mount boards) is to mount two or three RCD/MCBs (20 amp capacity, 30 mA residual current trip) with a 15 amp socket for each RCD on the DIN rail at the board. This way if one tradesman takes out a circuit, the others can keep working.

Anyone notice that the guy has the cord hooked up with the neutral side hot?

I usually see the hardwood floor installers do this. If I catch them, I steal whatever gadget they are using. The builder doesn't want to pay for xtra temps, and they try to use 2 saws and 2 compressors on 1 circuit-wont work! I tell them, if you want to use that much at one time, better bring a generator. The superintendants usually agree with me. Oh yeah-the kicker is they dont like to replace the panel cover

Exactly what the marble guys in our house did... alligator clips to the 220V/100amp bus. Unmetered power too... but that's a common sight with any construction people here working in places like apartment building hallways, basements,...

From an inspectors perspective, I call the utility and have the building disconnected. The general Contractor comes into the office and raves about having no power. I usually offer him the phone number to the WCB (like OSHA) and suggest he gets the temporary service he just removed returned. I have never had to do this twice with the same contractor. The electrical contractor often gets a $100 dollar ticket too. It is the ticket I hate to write since the electrical contractor is not usually the guy who created the hazard. The tile guy or whomever gets a ticket and loses the cheater cord too. If a Workers Compensation Inspector comes on site and sees something like this will write a $5000 tickets for first offences.

Reminds me of the guy that used an adaptor, lamp socket to two prong recetacle type, and screwed it into the fuse holder of his sixty amp service so he could run his table saw.
His was only a 60 amp extension cord, #14, two wire, of course.
"The only thing I don't understand about electricity is why more people don't get killed." Hogan, Chief Electrical Inspector City of Chicago 1982.
Alan--

I see the hardwod floor guys do this all the time too. The best is when they never put the panel cover back on and the GC screams at my boss and I get blamed for it!! Not much I can do as far as a installing a temporary double-pole circuit for the floor guys, but I ALWAYS install the required GFCI receptacle in an unfinished basement beneath the panel.

Saw a guy sanding a floor with a big sander that he plugged into the stove outlet. The sander had a female end on it and his DIY extention cord had male on both ends! Plug in only the cord and you have a serious hazard!

I would love to see tamperproof panel screws. I mean, if they're used for bathroom stall dividers, we should be able to use them for electrical panels!

We can do our best ... but there is a limit to what can be done ... especially when you are combating a mind-set. As far as fervent, unwavering dedication to a creed goes, there is no religion like "Idiot-ology!"

ECN once had a pic of a panel that had added to it numerous hasps and locks, to keep out the ignorant. Locks were cut, hasps destroyed, and the cover pried away.

As for the floor-sanding crew: One apartment complex had me instal dedicated receptacles just for their use. No matter... they went straight to the panels, and clipped onto the bussbars. They didn't even try- and when the new receptacles were pointed out to them, they could still not be bothered to use them!

Funny I've never come across a flooring guy doing this, but I have come across more than one roofer/framer with air compressors in tote attempting this... First time I told him where to plug things in, he said he'd take care of it... I came back the next day and he did the same thing (He was doubletapping the 200A main load side!). I called my boss who sent me to another job for the day and called CalOSHA. GC and roofer both got sizable money demands (in the $500 - $1000 range if I remember correctly).

In that case where did he steal the neutral wire from? If he put a Edison to two prong receptacle adapter in a fuse holder wouldn't only have a hot wire? Since the Fuse breaks the hot connection? so where would he steal a neutral wire from or did he take the cover off the panel and clip something onto the neutral bar?

Maybe he just put his saw in series with whatever load was on the circuit...

They probably picked up the hot from the adapter and clamped the neutral on whatever ground screw was handy.

When I was doing residential work I constantly had problems with guys getting into panels. I bought a couple dozen #10 Tri-wing machine screws. I got mine from a company called Small Parts Inc., but I think Grainger sells them, too.

I would use them in place of all the panel screws, and leave the original screws in the bottom of the can. When we'd completed trim-out, I'd just put the original screws back in and take the tamper-resistant screws onto the next job.

Worked like a champ, I never had anyone get into the panels after I started doing that. But it's also a double-edged sword! The one time I forgot my tamper-bit set even working on the screws with vise-grips, I couldn't get the darn things out. I didn't know whether to be angry or happy that it worked so well.

-John