Sometimes violations are hard to find, and some times you just start laughing as soon as you open the door.....




I'll post some more pics of this job when I get more time.

laughing.........

Ryan did you set this up in your garage for us to have a good laugh.

This is a classic, nail plates what more do you want.

Wow: two posts in under two minutes!!!

I'll have to show you the rest...you'll die. Nuetrals on hots, hots on nuetrals, bonding on the load side ( A real fire hazard in this case...think about it), Schedule 40 lateral riser, no bonds on metal raceway with GEC, etc...

Heres the best part...they used a bond bushing on the panel. What exactly are tehy bonding here...the locknut?

I'll hopefully get some more up tonight or tommorrow.

They bond conduit that doesn't exist, and they nail-plate individual conductors that shouldn't be there to begin with, this all seems just a little bit backwards....

Ryan_J,

What do you mean by "bonding on the load side"?

-John

[This message has been edited by BigJohn (edited 03-28-2004).]

Cool!
Certainly did the wrong thing in a very right way.

Ryan'
I'm curious. What did you cite as "the" violation?

Don't you need porcelien knobs and tubes here?

hay is that knob and tube wiring LOL

Ryan
Please tell us this was not installed by an electrician. Jeez, I am really perplexed as to how this kind of installation can really be done. It is a sad state of how things are if that is a licensed electrician's work.

Pierre

Pierre,If you'd come to my part of Ga. I could show you lots of stuff like this done by "Licensed" electricians.

If I can figure out how to work this new digital camera,I'll send Bill some pics.

The nail plates rule How the heck does someone know about nail playes but doesn't understand conduit or cable

I can spot a Violation;
The Feeders aren't strapped!


Just joking around!

On the serious side;
The NM cables coming from the top KOs appear not to be strapped - unless they are stapled to the Shear Panel???
Also, the use of an Al. GEC is aproaching the "D'OHH" realm (MHO).
At least (unless my eyes are totally shot) the Panelboard is a Square D QO type - looks like 200 Amp 30/40.
Is it QO or HOM - or not even Square D!? (totally looks like Square D)

Let us know what the reaction is to the Non-Compliance notification regarding the Feeders (the Free-Air Feeders!).

You get an extra 100 Points if you say:
"Gotta Put 'Em In Corn-Duit!" when issuing / responding to the correctin list item.

One question:
Why didn't the EC / Installer just mount the Panelboard two stud bays over to the left, lower the Panel down about 12" - 24", and come into the back of the Enclosure with the Feeders and the Conduit run!
At least bring the feeder's duct more to the right.
As it is, the fix would be a pullbox, or unsightly (and shirt/pants catching) LB.

Next issue: Why no White Tape on the Grounded Conductor?!

Scott35

Hey, Honey, Look! We can have the kids store their skies here!

So Scott wanted to know about why they didn't re-identify the grounded conductor as white. Let me show you:



John: What I meant by "illegal bonding" is that they had they neutral and ground bonded together in the panel in the first picture (not service equipment). Think about that bare wire, in direct contact with wood, carrying nuetral current. Scary...I really think that might be one of the biggest fire hazards I've seen in my short tenure as an inspector.

Pierre: No, this wasn't done by a licensed guy, it was done by the owner of the house/garage.

Let me edit this: This picture here is service equipment, but they also had the interior panel bonded (250.24(A)(5).

[This message has been edited by Ryan_J (edited 03-29-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ryan_J (edited 03-29-2004).]

After seeing this recent pic, the installation sucks even more!!!


Can only say:
"Whaddaheck!!!"

Ryan,
Does that Conductor on the far right have a White Stripe running down the middle of it, and the Conductor landed to the Grounded Conductor's Bus has no Colored Stripe?


Thought the Panelboard in the first image was the Service equipment - hence no fun made of the N-G bonding (only of the type conductor...).

Looks like fun!

Scott35

Whoa Nelly, the panel cover is upside down too.

Roger

It looks like they got hold of a couple of pieces of POCO secondary cable, and put it to good use.
Ryan, did they say "If it's good enough for the POCO to use, it's good enough for me"?

On use of "POCO secondary cable"—there is another problem. With most {NEC/UL} building wire, the aluminum conductor is "AA8000-series" which is alloyed with a small amount of iron, and is far more resistant to smack-you-in-the-face installation springback and coldflow problems. AA8000 conductor has been readily available for about 25 years.

Instead, for "secondary" cable, older '1350-alloy' material is often used, but is more typically installed with nonreversible hydraulic-compressed terminals and splices. So for building wire, "good enough for PoCo" is likely not the case for Code applications.




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 03-29-2004).]

Didja hear this as an excuse?


LOL

If they wanted the panel in the garage, why didn't they just use the "back to back" all in one?

Absolutely mind numbing. I hope more pictures are to follow Ryan.

Given all the other violations, what's the chance that the 2-gang receptacle box is fed by a properly wired GFCI receptacle? It doesn't look like like any of the breakers are GFCI, at least in the picture as I can see it.

Rlrct: Beleive me that garage complies now...every single inch has been inspected....every single inch EDIT: Sorry, I mis-read your post. You are corect, the receptacles were not GFCI. Good catch.

As far as the conductors go, I think they bought a length of SER cable and just stripped the sheathing off it I guess they thought the jacket was just to hold the conductors in place until you bought them at the store?

[This message has been edited by Ryan_J (edited 03-30-2004).]

LOL

Wait till they buy some UF cable, that 'packaging' is pretty tough to open.

LOL
Now you guys have done it.
I'll be laughing all day now....S

But, the guy at the home supply store said it was OK!

OMGGGG!! The things I missed while my computer was down!!! I called one of my electrician friends in northern California to see this, he about laughed up a lung! The bond bushing & Dottie plates here are priceless! I wonder if this guy was following that "1914 Electricians Handbook" from a previous post! I'm seriously curious for Joe T. to comment on this one, he's probably got something worse he's come across.... Can't be much worse!

Correct me if i'm wrong but couldn't this installation been done by running the nipple from the service equipment right into the back of the MLO panel?
--
Tom H

This main danger with this installation, is the inspector can have heart failure from laughing.

I nearly did. When I opened the door and saw this, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, ya know?

Tom:


I was wondering the same thing when first saw this setup!
Then when Ryan posted the 2nd "Series" image - the one showing the Service Equipment, it became even more odd; as the use of a short, close Nipple would not only make a very clean install, but reduce the materials costs, reduce the installation / labor burden, and eliminate the "need" for that "Crazy Sub Feeder" shown in the first image!

But then again, we here (in this Forum) Install Service equipment and Panelboards + Feeders often, and on a larger scale - as our normal Career tasks, so (for me at least) things like this seem very odd.

To the extreme Novice - such as the one(s) installing the equipment shown in this thread, these items may very well be out of their abilities base ("shouldn't even touch the stuff"), and become highly ambiguous!

Trying not to laugh alot, the fact remains - the install is just plain funny!

Would have loved to witness the initial reaction of Ryan, when He first saw this!

Something in the line of:

&

At the same time seems likely!

Kind of not related, but still funny story, was when I showed these images to a Friend - to see His reaction.

Of course, the reaction was "WHADDAHECK!!!"

After explaining the topic a bit (and that Ryan is an Inspector), my Friend mentioned a little dispute with an Inspector on a recent Residential Service upgrade.

The Water Line from the Street / Meter to the house had been replaced with Non-Metallic Pipe, and the Water Meter was about 50 feet from the Point Of Entrance for the Water Line to the Structure.

Inspector was informed of this, yet still required the incoming water line - within 5 feet of entrance to the building, to be included with the Grounding Electrode System.

He (my Friend) did not know how to rectify this communication breakdown between himself and the Inspector, as the complete scenario had been discussed several times to no avail.

I suggested the "Default Joke Answer" per bonding Non-Metallic Water Pipes to the GES; which of course is to run a minimum 1/4" Polyethylene Yellow Pull Rope from the Plastic Water Pipe to the Service Equipment, and to Terminate the Rope to the Plastic Pipe with Plastic Zip Ties.

After explaining that the point will be made upon seeing the sillyness of the Pull Rope Conductor (as long as it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to do!), he decided to do the demonstration.

The whole thing worked, as once the Inspector saw what was going on, he realized why the Water Line was not included with the GES.

Must have made the guy laugh his butt off too!

Scott35