Let me make sure I understand you....the owner/lead foreman of an electrical contracting firm had never before heard that all conductors for a circuit were to be run in the same conduit? And neither of you could find it in the NEC?

And why did he run those grounds across the front exterior of the panels?

Maybe he didn't realize about keeping conductors of the same circuit together, but surely then he would have threaded these through the existing large nipple at the top between the panels?

That's funnny. Sometime I wish they would revoke an electrical liciance for too many dumb mistakes like that. Like a drivers liciance & too many tickets. I guess some have the power but I never herd of it happening.

Maybe the equip. grounds are just not terminated yet?

Can they get the panels any closer to each other. Some covers will not fit like that with out over lapping.

Tom

I like the chase nipple between panels

Hmm. Yep, looks like you're right. I don't know why I didn't notice that before.


By the way, is this in Canada? I've just noticed the phase order on the main lugs of the right-hand panel.and the breakers on the left panel.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 06-26-2005).]

PLEASE tell me you got temp readings? If there is any HID lighting in this place (and something tells me it's full of it) I'd have to say the temps got high, fast if this was energized.

Paul, you raise an interesting few points.

In the US, the common practice---practice, mind you, not any form of 'code'--- is to mark the feeders in the order Black-Red-Blue.
Likewise, it is also the practice to follow this pattern from the top down for the breakers.

Looking at the breakers, I see black-red-black-blue.....and some yellow farther down.

This suggests that the person who connected these wires had no formal training; that is, had not been taught the 'ground rules." It is in stark contrast to the neat pipework and clean mounting of the panels. I wouldn't be surprised if we're seeing the work of two different guys.

I'd also like to see just how much induction heating occurs here.

I think the yellow you are seeing is yellow wirenuts !

I agree on the yellow wirenuts..

I'm not sure if that top black is a conductor, or a uncut ty-wrap.. If you look closely at the breakers, it's hard to tell if the top breaker is really a breaker, or just black plastic trim.. compare with the trim in the right panel..

note the absence of writing on the top "breaker".. if you assume that the top black "wire" isn't a conductor, the rest of the colors match up with the phase order in the right panel..
red, black, blue, red, black, blue, etc..

I think it's the latter. In fact it looks as though we might be seeing the uncut ends from two - one on the bundle of red wires above and one from a bundle on the right.




P.S. The phase colors have been bugging me, and thinking about it some more I seem to recall our esteemed Webmaster telling us once that red-black-blue ordering is also common in Long Island.

Bill, are you out there? Am I imagining things?



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 06-29-2005).]

Are some of the conductors passing from the vertical conduit(s) through the first panel, and into the second one?

Perhaps even passing through to somewhere else? Would this be forbidden?

I AM AN ELECTRICIAN ON LONG ISLAND...THE COLORS FOR A 3 PHASE WYE CONNECTED SERVICE ARE BLUE-BLACK-RED AS PER LIPA..

Wouldn't that cause a field around the conduits, cause them to chatter and fluctuate, and then turn cherry red hot?

My guess is that there probably is a wireway above these panels.
Not only would you have the violation(s) you can see here, but the wireway above would probably have more than 100 conductors in a cross-section, not derated.
This is a "pet peeve" of mine, and I see it too often.
"Elektrition" will put as many 3/4" or 1" conduits across the top of the panel as will fit, so they don't have to figure anything out. (Note the empty conduits)

I've seen empty conduits before, at a new construction at my university. My electrical teacher said that it's fine to do that, plus easier on the rough-in, and have them meet at a junction box, just in case you'll even need to pull a new circuit to a new location.

On a recent walk-thru I noticed the EC didn’t run separate hot, neutrals, and grounds for circuits that I indicated on my drawings.
I told the EC he needed to go back and add dedicated neutrals and grounds for the circuits indicated. This was his solution.

I questioned them about the code violation, said they never heard of that in the code.

By the way, this was the owner of the company and his lead foreman.

Craig Lusinger

I'd like to see the Code reference for the "dedicated neutrals" myself.
Isn't "dedicated neutral" an oxymoron? If the grounded conductor is a dedicated one, then it's not a neutral, is it?

Nonetheless, if it was on the drawings, and part of the contract documents, they should have done the job per specifications.

Morning Electure:

Get that first cup of coffee, you will be busy today, I have some great shots and stories for you!