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Physical Damage: There ought to be a law against this type of installation!!



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 11-28-2003).]
Posted By: DougW Re: Physical Damage! What is Physical Damage? - 11/29/03 06:04 PM
Do we really want to incite the "plastic v. Metal" battle again?

Break out the asbestos underpants!
There is a law against it Joe, it's called the NEC. [Linked Image]

John
Why are there two white wires (presumably the "neutral" wires) and only one "hot" wire? (Look at the larger conduit.) The green conductor has white tape on it, also.
and NM(?) coming out of the LB...
Really a poor glue joint on the larger conduit.
Physical Damage ?

I don't think so !!!!

This is clearly a result of "Mental" Damage...suffered by the installer afer he sniffed the glue he was supposed to use on the pipe......
The original installer should have complied with 352.12(B).
Don
Posted By: crash Re: Physical Damage! What is Physical Damage? - 12/05/03 12:01 AM
Isn't that enclousure actually supposed to be bolted or attached to something so that it is supported by something other than the conduit? Where did that support go, was it every there?

Incidentally Don, what is the jist of 352.12(B)? On my next trip to the U.S. I will purchase a N.E.C. code book.


[This message has been edited by crash (edited 12-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by crash (edited 12-04-2003).]
I believe it should have been .12(B)&(C). In fact it is hard to tell by the picture, but the location may not even be suitable for this disconnect, it looks like a pullout or small disconnect.

Pierre
If you look closely, the bottom "white" wire,
it appears to have been red at one time.
352.10 (H) Support of Conduit Bodies. Rigid nonmetallic conduit shall be permitted to support nonmetallic conduit bodies not larger than the largest trade size of an entering raceway. The conduit bodies shall not contain devices or support luminaires (fixtures) or other equipment.
352.12 Uses Not Permitted.
RNC shall not be used in the following locations.
(A) Hazardous (Classified) Locations.
(1) In hazardous (classified) locations, except as permitted in 503.3(A), 504.20, 514.8, and 515.8
(2) In Class I, Division 2 locations, except as permitted in 501.4(B), Exception
(B) Support of Luminaires (Fixtures). For the support of luminaires (fixtures) or other equipment not described in 352.10(H).(C) Physical Damage. Where subject to physical damage unless identified for such use.
As with many of these photos, the primary problem seems to be the LOCATION of the work.

Perhaps the NEC needs to be a little more specific as to the expectation that things will be placed where they are not subject to mechanical damage, corrosion, etc. We need to be able to consider such things as lawn sprinklers, backing-up trucks, etc.
We also need to stress the accessibility of controls- not only to the operator, but locating them so that their use is apparent and the operator can monitor his efforts.
...Now...Ive truly seen everything....that atrocity was still live..??
This reminds me of when I was rewiring a traffic signal. The person at the factory must of had way too much White, 18AWG, AL wire, not copper-clad, AL. How do I know which is which besides tugging on them and seeing which one pulls in the next section. (Thank goodness the red had a red and res/white stripe wire.)
Bump!
I think I also see a little bit of red on that white wire. Any pics of the device in the box, if there was one?
Ian A.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Physical Damage! What is Physical Damage? - 07/08/05 10:21 AM
Truth of the matter Joe,
That box should have been fixed to a pillar or the like.
To take the wieght off of the conduits and the wiring. [Linked Image]
I think that maybe the PVC cement may have also been laid a bit thinly too.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 07-08-2005).]
I have many times seen RMC coming out of the ground, supporting a Bell box, which in turn supports a landscaping light fixture. I take it that those installations are all in violation of Code? Or is there a provision somewhere that allows that use?
Rigid can be used as a support..the issue is whether any install has "enough" support,or is "suitable" for its' location.

The pic shows an install that clearly wasn't adequate, as it was damaged. The challenge is to either have a more robust construction, or to have some sort of barrier to guard it.

It comes down to the "Seven P's":
Proper
Prior
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance
Posted By: iwire Re: Physical Damage! What is Physical Damage? - 07/08/05 10:39 PM
Quote
I have many times seen RMC coming out of the ground, supporting a Bell box, which in turn supports a landscaping light fixture. I take it that those installations are all in violation of Code? Or is there a provision somewhere that allows that use?

Quote
314.23(F) Raceway Supported Enclosures, with Devices, Luminaires (Fixtures), or Lampholders. An enclosure that contains a device(s) or supports a luminaire(s) [fixture(s)], lampholder, or other equipment and is supported by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3 (100 in.3) in size. It shall have threaded entries or have hubs identified for the purpose. It shall be supported by two or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure.

Key points, two threaded conduits into threaded enclosure or listed hubs.

So when you get to the last one on the circuit you still have to have a second raceway for the support.
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