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Posted By: Joe Tedesco Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/07/03 07:29 PM
[Linked Image]

Is the color GREEN OK for use to identify the Grounding Electrode Conductor, or is it a violation to use it to identify a GEC?

Your Vote Here Please!

USE THE NEC ONLY PLEASE!

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 03-07-2003).]
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/07/03 08:08 PM
310.12(C) requires the grounding electrode conductor to be green.
Don
Posted By: cubby964 Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/07/03 08:45 PM
I am securely on the fence as to any requirements, but I vote Green.
Rationale: none other than the fact that green indicates groundING everywhere else in the Code. (And yes, because we've always done it that way).
I also vote for a change to the Code. (if I can do that here)
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/07/03 09:44 PM
Green is allowed to identiy the equipment grounding conductor. This is a grounding electrode conductor which is defined as the conductor that connects the grounding electrode to the equipment grounding conductor, the grounded conductor or both. My vote is absolutely not.
Posted By: Electra Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/07/03 09:54 PM
Isn't that conduit also supposed to be bonded to the GEC?

Here in Portland, I have only seen the GEC as green.
Posted By: sparky Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/07/03 10:30 PM
I could see some diagnostic instances where a EGC should not be confused with a GEC, therefore some means of differentiating would be prudent.

OTOH, the NEC would seem moot on the subject, as if it is not a safety issue
Posted By: WebSparky Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 12:22 AM
Hi Joe,

How about........ (key word 'grounding')

2002 NEC:
Article 100 Definitions:

Quote
Grounded. Connected to earth or to some conducting body that serves in place of the earth.

Quote
Grounded Conductor. A system or circuit conductor that is intentionally grounded.

Quote
Grounding Conductor. A conductor used to connect equipment or the grounded circuit of a wiring system to a grounding electrode or electrodes.
The later mixes the words "grounding" and "grounded" in a single definition that actually referes to two separate terms used elsewhere in the NEC.

What a conundrum!(a : a question or problem having only a conjectural answer b : an intricate and difficult problem)

Since there is no clear answer to be found in the NEC, but the words "grounding conductor" are used in reference to (A) the "grounding electrode conductor", which never specifies an identification in reference to color, and (B) the " equipment grounding conductor" which specifies an identification in reference to color (green),we are left to wonder what color if any, we are to use.
It would seem logical based on the above definitions to choose green since one is specified and one is not.

Hummm........

Dave
Posted By: sparky Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 12:45 AM
Quote
Since there is no clear answer to be found in the NEC

shall we move on to bonding idenification?
Posted By: WebSparky Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 01:37 AM
Hey sparky!

What did ya have in-mind? [Linked Image]
Posted By: sparky Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 01:45 AM
WebSparky.
there is much controversy over 'bonding' vs. GEC's or EGC's , so would identification follow suit??

~S
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 01:47 AM
Electra:

Only when of metal, these were nonmetallic raceways.
Posted By: WebSparky Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 01:48 AM
sparky,

I don't know...... I thought bonding was pretty clear. [Linked Image]
Posted By: sparky Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 02:52 AM
Websparky,
so did i until it was debated on the net, theory, intent and definition clash.

quite interesting to hear from those in the know.

not all bonding is grounded, so how would one identify this?
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 03:16 AM
The picture is a good illustration that practices and materials vary widely from place to place. IMO, those aluminum clamps look right-out scuzzy. A decent fault would probably send those through the concrete.

You know, there hasn’t been a new cable color in years… How about if we submit a proposal for clear GEC insulation for the 2008 Code? ;-)
Posted By: Gwz Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 04:30 PM
Joe,

You hurt me by being required to cite the NEC.

Would you look at:

1992 TCR, page 176, Log # 703, Proposal 5-206 ?

Personnally, since it is not addressed in the NEC, I would say a covered or insulated GEC can be any color available to mark the GEC with.

Seems to violate 200.6 if White or Gray is used.

Just go back to the CMP partial statement of " Panel does not believe there is a need for identification by color - - -." , so white and gary can also be used for the GEC.
Posted By: golf junkie Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/08/03 07:36 PM
"Just go back to the CMP partial statement of " Panel does not believe there is a need for identification by color - - -." "

Exactly!!
Much ado about nothing.

GJ
Posted By: C-H Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/10/03 05:55 PM
How about a sticker that says "GEC" or "To ground electrode"?
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/16/03 12:44 PM
[Linked Image]

Here's an image from the JATC 2002 NEC Update, and they show a green, bare, and "gray" GEC!

OK, I am willing to accept the color green

PS: Paul Coxwell, I am sorry for the out of line comments I made on the other thread .... please forgive me!
Posted By: pauluk Re: Vote for the GEC Color Here!! - 03/18/03 12:16 AM
Joe,
Apology accepted, no hard feelings. I'm just trying to interpret what I've read in the NEC from an outsider's point of view.

Not directly relevant to the specific query, but by way of passing interest, our "code" in Britain has for many years explicitly specified that only the color green (later green/yellow) may be used for the GEC. That's the same as for equipment grounding conductors.
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