I have a problem at my house, and not sure if this is a viable solution...we have Verizon FIOS...all is well, except, i have one run that is approx 200' long...there it splits to 3 tv's...
there is an amplifier on the line already, installed by Verizon, but it's a 15db bi-directional amp...and it barely gave enough signal strength when there was only 1 tv on it...
the picture comes through, but the menu guide and the on-demand features don't work.
So, did a little research and I am going to install a tilt amplifier at the source....my question is this...
if the tilt amplifier doesn't throw enough oomph into the line, can I add a bi directional amplifier at the end of the line (before it splits into the 3 tv's)...or is it only 1 amp per line?
What does Verizon say about this? I would tell them to fix their signal problem or take their equipment with them when they go.
This isn't the old Ma Bell days where you had to like it or lump it.
it's not verizon's issue...their signal is fine at the building their drop is to...we are running it to a separate building on the property, after the drop, that is 200' away...
I was just going on your comment that it was barely enough for one TV.
If the cable company is the yardstick, they would rather install their amplifier than to have you put one in that might reflect noise back on their network. Cable quality might be more important than anything else at 200' out tho.
I would still try to work with their tech before I started buying stuff. He might have something that would get you going on his truck. This is a competitive market these days.
they already installed the existing one...it's all he had on his truck...
what kind of cable are you running between buildings?
For a 200' run, I would use RG-11 as the minimum, and would prefer 1/2" hardline. RG59 isn't going to cut it, and RG-6 will lose 16-24db @1000 mhz.
Passive splitters are going to cost you 3.5db+ per split, in both directions.
You need to amplify the signals at both ends to compensate for the cable and splitter loss, which means that your bi-directional amp at the remote building needs to have enough gain in the return direction to offset the cable loss at the frequency of interest. Once the signal is lost into the noise, it is very difficult to recover.
Techie is right on. You don't say what that 200' of cable is but I can guess and there's your problem. Those little drop amps are not going to help you. You are in trouble here also because you are not dealing with a cable company that is used to dealing with long runs of coax. This is Verizon FiOS and about all they know is running a few feet of RG-6 from their ONT on the side of the house to the sets. I even wonder what kind of test equipment they have and without that it's like a blind man driving a car, especially in your situation.
So, what I'm saying is this is not going to work with that cable. I too recommend .500 hardline. You are still going to need at least one amplifier and because you need to have reverse gain also things get tricky. This is not something you are going to do without proper tools, test equipment and some knowledge about what you are doing.
Then again I wonder if this is something that should even be handled on this level. Might it be better to have Verizon just provide another service to that building?
-Hal
2nd service isn't worth it...not that important...
since this is our property, it's basically my test lab...we don't really do CATV, but occasionally...usually i'll pass it on to an A/V guy, but haven't been impressed by any lately...the one that we used who was good, went and had a heart attack on me...so he's not around anymore...
...we'll see what we can come up with...thanks
If this was my own project I wouldn't try to handle it unless I had the proper test equipment which I no longer have. If this were a paying job and large enough it just might prompt me to shell out the $3200 for it. There is no way I would want to select amps and adjust them without it.
Then too we keep referring to this as CATV when it really isn't, at least in the traditional sense. I understand Verizon uses Motorola set top boxes but I have on idea if the DOCIS specs are the same as traditional CATV so I wouldn't know what level is within limits for the return carrier, whether there is only one, or do they do something entirely different.
If this were a cable company you could get some help but I doubt Verizon would even know what you are talking about.
-Hal
exactly...i'll try not to bring the network to a halt...
Verizon uses MoCA between the ONT and their set-top boxes for the VOD features (using IPTV). With MoCA, the "return path" is in the 1GHz range. (The "forward path" is too, for that matter).
MoCA is essentially a local-area network that runs over coax, using bandwidth above 1GHz so it could co-exist on the the same cable with cable TV signals. (It runs at speeds up to 175megabits/sec according to what I read).
You'd need an amplifier built to work with MoCA. I don't know of any. I've never seen any. I don't know if anyone makes them.
I don't know of any. I've never seen any. I don't know if anyone makes them.
And neither does Verizon. This is why I always say:
Get your TV from the cable company.
Get your telephone from the telephone company.
It's called "Stick to what you know best".
-Hal
PDI makes one...that's what we have on there...
we actually relocated the source and rerouted the cable, shaving off about 75'...the PDI amp that Verizon installed now seems to be doing the trick....
guess i'll make this install permenant in a few months:D
thanks for the info...
Just for future reference (Fios is coming to some communities here)- What kind of cable are you using? RG59? RG6? RG11?
I'd like to know how far we can push Fios without amps.
Mike
I'd like to know how far we can push Fios without amps.
The answer is you purchase the proper test equipment and know something about CATV design. But the real answer is that there is no "we", that's Verizon's responsibility. Run your cable as always and let them handle the rest.
I wonder if Verizon knew what they were getting into with Fios and every "expert" screwing with their installs.
-Hal
The guys they send out really know very little...basically how to mount some stuff on the wall and run a little cable. They are all contracted out- we're in CA and the last one I did the guy drove his mini van from Florida to do a bunch of them.
But this is the state of the telecom industry now!
Mike
I agree. You can also look at cable companies installing telephone. Neither has any business doing this and should stick to their core product.
-Hal