I've done a reasonable amount of telephone premisis wiring and installation, and have a challenge coming up.

One of my commercial accouts is "re-doing" the control center in their batch paving plant...

I need to identify which pairs go to which line. Carpenters and others have cut cat3 lines, and, perhaps colorblind others, have tried to reconnect....

What is the "official" name for the number which you dial to determine which telephone line you are connected to? I have the number for some of our local telco's, but not this one. Is there any "standard" like 411 etc. that is common?

Thanks for your help!

Grov

Those numbers are not given out, particularly on a public board like this one. Reason is that they become used by people who have no business using them and then they get changed or removed. When that happens legitimate users are inconvenienced.

If anybody here wants to give any of these numbers out in this post DON'T!!

I would suggest that you simply call your cell and note the number on the display. This can actually be a better solution, make a call from each line then scroll through the recent calls to see the order.

-Hal

The #'s are definitely something that shouldn't be shared.
If you are id'ing a particular line just call your cell from the line and hang up before you hit voice mail and you won't use any minutes.
If you are trying to look for a particular # on a demarc frame that has exposed binding posts, a good trick I learned was to call the # you were looking for and run down the frame with a piece of copper shorting out pairs, when you hear a crackling in the phone you are calling the # with, you hit the right pair.

Thanks for the ideas guy's!

Actually, I tracked down the Verizon guy and got what I needed from him - and yes, I agree with not sharing publicly... Turns out the "majic numbers" are CO switch dependant - the ones I had were all for a #5ESS, and they are programmable!

The problem is a little more wierd now that I've dug into it. The DEMARC has 3 lines coming in, and 5 CAT3's going out. Lines go to a total of at least 8 dual RJ-11 jacks...

I opened the critical box; found 6 CAT3's - 3 of which were taped off. Started toning some pairs - R/G pair at DEMAC is B/Y at the critical jack box! Got L1 dial tone ok, but when I connect L2 at the DEMARC, it kills L1, and L2. Opend another dual RJ-11 box - 3 CAT3's R/G in connected to B/Y out etc.

Desired connections:
L1 and L2 to 3 2-line phones
L2 to 2 modems
L2 light on 2-line phones to show busy if either modem is active
Future - L1 and L2 to 2 more 2-line phones

In a clean-up walk-around, I discovered several taped splices, at least 2 wire nut splices, one "bean" splice, and one connection to a dial-up alarm "Oh that? We disconeected it a long time ago." "Got a key?" "Nope - lost it."

RJ-31X inside ?????

Did old DEMARC's use Yellow for ground????

Customer doesn't want to re-wire building - small (30 x 40) 2 floors - industrial office and plant control room - metal siding outside....

Hope my helper likes toning pairs...he'll get the outside - it's supposed to be up to 20 deg tomorrow!

And, I'm really there to start on a 2000A 3 phase 480 hookup - waiting on final specs... so I can order switchgear.....

Give them a choice:

To spend time tracing to figure out where everything goes will cost $x

To rewire everything properly will cost $y.

Make sure $x and $y are pretty close together and put on the sales hat and bridge the gap to go for the rewire. It will save a lot of headaches next time they want to change something and they call you.

Maybe they want to add more lines, maybe they want jacks in different places.. Sell them on solving all their telecomm problems

Yellow ground.

It should be standard practice to ground all unused pairs, as for the bennied ends. That usually notes a bad pair. If I were to come across a joined pair I would skip it and move on. It isint worth the time to try and find the short.

just a thought

The Cell Phone technique is the best bet.

Started using it (back when I was in the field - as oppose to behind the Monitor!), mainly because my Test Set does not have a Memory Dial function, and the ID number was an 18 digit string!!!

It's been so long, that number is probably dead now!

Scott35

Done!

New wires in place; all's well - customer happy - and got paid!

Never did find the short....

Grov

See? That was easy.. and now they'll call you next time.

What he didn't tell us is that he made more to re-run the cabling than he would've chasing that short, and it took him half the time.

Whats it called? "ANAC" ANAC stands for Automatic Number Announcement Circuit. Often reffered to as 'tellback' as it tells you back the number... Not to be confused with the "ringback" number. You can locate them by finding an old "Phreaker" (Telephone hacker), or you just call 611, or "0" and ask for technichal service and ask for the binding post numbers - and often if you have several, as this guy did - they just give you a number... It's easier for them, and they change them all the time anyway. I have about a dozen dead ones on my butt-set. But if you call asking for a tellback or ANAC number thay wont give it to you.

E57,
They will actually give you the Binding Post #'s over the phone?
Here telco will send out a tech to tag it and verify it, could be a couple of days if I depend on them to find me the #.
My hunch is that the cable-count databases are not totally on point here.

Binding post numbers, DSL and ISDN active on board.... You just gotta know who and how to ask. Explain your situation... "Hi I'm Joe Schmuck with XYZ Electricic doing some inside work for a customer at 123 Blahblahblah St. I need the binding post numbers for 415-123-4567?"

They answer (lets just say) "25"... It's up to you to know how to find '25' though. Heres how thats done.... left to right, top to bottom. So even if you have four TNI's w/6 ea. above, and then a punch-down block below - you're counting the TNI's too. "25" would be at the top of that block...

If it's not there you call them back and say that it wasn't there. (Or worse it wasn't the right number...) As soon as you say that, they are already running diagnostic on the line, pinging all the switches and the last board and VOP (Velocity of Propigation) via a built-in TDR from the last board and double checking from the last know VOP in thier computer. They can see shorts, open and lentgh of wire, and how many connections - just like that! (I usually chat these girls up - they are usually in another state, and desperate for human conversation.) They come back and say they're pretty sure its at the MPOE, and on that block... While they are saying that they are checking all the service records for that complete trunk and street board. While they are doing that - you say, "can you ring it for me?" If it's quiet enough, (and I'm close enough) I can pick it up in the toner. But if you have a few hundred pairs on a board and the line is lost - forget that!

After that, sometimes they will just give me a number (And you can tell that they are looking over their shoulder when they do...) or they expedite a tech, and sometime I get same day service... Thats where chatting them up earlier comes into play.

But if you have a dozen or more lines fax them a list, and they'll come out and tag them all, or send you a list back.

You either have excellent organization and customer service where you are working and\or you have a way with words.
Just yesterday I went to one of our locations to connect a new line for an elevator phone.
The line was supposed to be installed on 2-8-07, I am there on 2-15-07.
I go to the demarc to find my line and lo and behold it is nowhere to be found.
I go through the whole block thinking maybe the tech just didn't tag it and much to my surprise I don't find it.
I then run into the maintenance man and ask him if telco was there within the last week and he tells me they haven't.
I feel lucky when I am told a line is installed when and where it is supposed to be and it is.
Call up and get binding post #'s over the phone? I wish.

Don't get me wrong if it aint there - I get to wait too... But if it is thewy will help you find it - and I like to believe it's because I am so suave....

I don't think most phone companies would see giving out the Line Identifier number as a major security issue.

I've had an operator in Ireland give me the code over the phone so that I could figure out which line was which coming into my house. It probabally presented more of a security risk in the old days when phreaking was still possible and switches were still crossbars, step-by-step etc.

Calling your mobile phone from the line is definitely the simplest sollution if you don't have / don't have access to the number.

However, I would suggest giving your phone co's tech support/repairs number a call and asking for it explaining why you need it. They shouldn't have a problem giving it out.

An old standby for identifying an unknown pair was 1-800-MY-ANI-IS. This number now refers callers to one of those new "10-10" type numbers, and I don't think it is free anymore.

Its not only a security issue, its because the central office system can only handle a few requests at a time. I know first hand about having to wait to get in and there's only legitimate people using it.

As for any toll free numbers, somebody is paying for each call.

... You just gotta know who and how to ask. Explain your situation... "Hi I'm Joe Schmuck with XYZ Electricic doing some inside work for a customer at 123 Blahblahblah St. I need the binding post numbers for 415-123-4567?"

E57, that's pretty bad advice. You are not supposed to be in a telco terminal, that belongs to them. Its not a demarc or NID. I know you are going to say well, everything is run in there without a demarc and yes, that's true but any wiring is supposed to be run by the TELCO. I wouldn't be stupid and call repair or the business office and ask for binding post numbers if I were you. That's an admission if ever I heard one. At the least they can make you pay for damages and service interruptions and at worst they can press charges if you give them reason and its a federal offence.

Do it the right way and call for a locate and tag.

-Hal

We have a couple of standardized test numbers right across the British network now, at least as far as all BT exchanges are concerned.

The older-style system connects the line straight into the automatic tester, reads back the number, and holds the line up while it does battery/earth/insulation tests on the line, then rings back with the result.

The newer system picks up the regular CLI sent from the line (and in fact will also tell you if the line you are calling from normally has CLI withheld) before offering a whole batch of test options.

We also have a handy test number which can be used from any line on the same exchange to put a test tone on a specified line.

There are a couple of test numbers in Ireland that are also standard across the eircom network.

The line identifier works much as you described.
It will just read back the full phone number as per the caller ID, without the lead 0.

i.e. 021 555 5555 will be read as 21 555 5555

The line tester now prompts for an ID + Pin before it will go any further.

Our older-style SALT tester doesn't do anything but drop you straight into the test (i.e. reads back the number then says "Start test," which is the cue to hang up).

The newer test facility is completely open as far as getting CLI (which includes the leading zero) and basic ringback is concerned. If you go into the line test section though, you're now prompted with "Press 1 if you have been authorized to use this service, or hang up." No security code is needed, and in fact even if you don't press 1 it still drops you straight into the test menu a few seconds later anyway!