First, let me apologise for my ignorance...almost all of my work is with "power" circuits.
I do pull a fair amount of Cat-5 for my customers, even make terminations at times. I have always bee careful with pulling force, the use of D-rings, etc.
On another job, the customer hired someone else to run the phone/data wire. The firm he hired specialises in this work, and is not the smallest or newest kid on the block.

So what do I see, but the other crew stapling the Cat-5 to the wood beams every few feet- just like the phone company used to do in homes.
I was taught that doing so would ruin the Cat-5.
Yet, I can't believe that this guy would have gotten away with this, for as long as he has, if there was a problem doing so. (To replace a line at this place would entail LOTS of demo- bldg uses 'wood I-beams')

So tell me- am I overly cautious- or is this guy flirting with disaster?

am I overly cautious- NO!

is this guy flirting with disaster- YES

This all depends on the type of stapler... a T-25 will work but is risky - real risky. Not to mention won't pass some peoples idea of visual inspection - deformed jacket = degraded performance - fail!

The T-59 supposedly doesn't do it... http://www.lanshack.com/product1.asp?SID=10&Product_ID=2321

When you say ruin the Cat5, do you mean ruin the Cat5 rating of 100MPS? From what I understand (not personal experience, but 2nd & 3rd hand sources) you can ruin the cable's ability to transmit at these higher speeds, but unless it is certified, you'll rarely know it.

Now if we're talking cat5 for phone use, I'd say yes, you're being overly cautious. if you did happen to short a pair together, you have 3 more to choose from.

The firm he hired specialises in this work, and is not the smallest or newest kid on the block.

Just because they specialize or have been around a long time doesn't mean they know what they are doing- only that they are good at BSing their customers.

There is absolutely no excuse for stapling CAT 5 in new construction. No reputable company will install cable that way. True, it probably will work but that is no excuse to at least try to get it right.

-Hal

What is the current thinking about supporting Cat5

When you compress cat 5 cable you change the impedance of the cable by changing the way the pairs are twisted. No!!! staples as well as no nylon tie wraps pulling a bundle of cable together. use only velcro tie wraps.

What is the current thinking about supporting Cat5?
http://www.erico.com/public/library/Fixing/LT0324.pdf

-Hal

I want to thank you all for your responses...it's so nice to hear I'm right! :-)

Thanks Hal. This has gone a long way since I decided yanking wire was a young man's job
;-)

Stapling Cat-5e wire is OK as long as the following is taken into account:

• The staple should not deform the sheath of the cable at all.
• The staples used should have a soft bit between the staple and the cable.
• Stapling pressure should be kept as enough to insert the staple and no more.

Also, there are cables made in New Zealand here that have a Teflon sheath, which makes pulling them a lot easier, ie: no friction.

Stapling Cat-5e wire is OK as long as the following is taken into account...

I've stapled data wiring when there was no other way, like around baseboards and doors for limited distances. I agree with what you say but I can tell you that controlling the staple and the T-25 stapler as you suggest is next to impossible and at best will take you forever. Also if you don't press firmly down on the stapler you risk the chance of putting a staple through the cable. Then you have to tear the whole run out and start over.

-Hal


[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 03-28-2005).]

For Cat-5 carrying 100 MB Ethernet, you've got a 12.5 MHz fundamental, which has a wavelength of 24 meters. Gigabit Ethernet on Cat-5e has a fundamental of 62.5 MHz, with a wavelength of 4.8 meters. I don't see that the slight impedance change over a distance of 3-4 millimeters is likely to have much effect on that slow of a signal. Has anybody set this up and looked at an eye plot? I doubt that you're going to see any changes in the eyes, but I can't say for sure.

I agree with you but a certification test will probably detect it. Even though the computers will work just fine the guys with the pocket protectors and tape on their glasses will get all bent out of shape over it.

-Hal

I like the white plastic GB data staples. They leave just enough wiggle room for cat5.

The job I mentioned at the start of this thread is nearing completion. The walls are all closed in, painted, and textured. The data folks are making their terminations.
I notice that half of the crew has never used a toner before- and even their lead man is having some trouble ringing out pairs, and often has to use a continuity test to confirm his pairs.

I don't suppose that the installation methods have anything to do with this dificulty :-) I'll let everyone know what happens when the computers and phones are in.

"I want to thank you all for your responses...it's so nice to hear I'm right! :-)"

Actually, you're not right. Using staplers in Cat 5 installation is a completely normal thing nowadays. Look at these staplers from Acme Staple Company: http://www.acmestaple.com/products/wire_cable.html

Some of those are specially designed for Cat 5 and coax installation. I have them on my site and installers buy them all the time.

They have specially designed staples that don't impede on the cable at all. They're just snug enough to keep them in place, but not enough to hurt the cable. And these guys know what they are doing-- they've been around making staplers since the late 1800's.

they've been around making staplers since the late 1800's

Hmmm, wonder what computer wiring they had back then.

Just because somebody makes something doesn't mean that it should be used. Manufacturers make all kinds of claims. You have to use your own judgement to make that determination.

-Hal

As of today, the customer hasn't moved in- so I don't know how his "network" will turn out.

I appreciate the claims Acme stapler is making....I was not aware that a stapler was marketed for this use.
I cannot speak for the brand of stapler used in this job; the staples looked like the same ones used for phone lines.

Contrary to whatever Acme Stapler says, the Panduit seminar I went to some years back taught "never staple Cat 5, never use bridle rings."

Can anybody quote Belden (or other wire mfr), or TIA, or BICSI as to whether it's OK to staple Cat 5?

I represent Acme Staple Company, so you might think I may be biased but here are the undisputed facts:
1. The U.S. Patent office earlier this year issued a patent re: Acme's models 25AC and 37AC staple guns and staples for crush-free installation of Broadband DSL and Coax cable.
2. Prior to market introduction, these stapling products were tested by a major US wire & cable manufacturer and found to meet the manufacturer's stringent installation specifications.
3. Many companies, including leaders like Verizon, have standardized on the Acme products for their DSL installation procedures.
4. BICSI, although refraining from endorsing specific products, uses these (and other) Acme stapling products in their training facilities, as do many other educational institutions that offer installation training courses.
5. Although there are alternative Broadband installation products and procedures, the Acme products allow for a safe, fast and the most cost-effective means to secure such wires.
6. For more information go to www.acmestaple.com or e-mail info@acmestaple.com

Onno Boswinkel

Acme, I thank you for your reply. I am sure that I am not the only one who welcomes an easier way of doing things!

Okay, fair enough. For the record we have both Arrow and Acme wire staplers and I like them equally. And heck, if I had known about Acme 25AC and 37AC's I would have bought one just to see how they work.

So, Acme, how come this is the first time I'm hearing about them? I get every trade publication known to man and I have never seen one. Seems like an interesting new product like this deserves more than fine print on the bottom of a table on your web site don't you think? I had to look several times for the little information that there is.

Maybe a "What's New" link that goes to a page with a PICTURE of a 25AC fastening a cable with those unique staples perhaps?

Now I'm going to have to get one just to see what you are talking about.

-Hal

Your point about not having seen Acme product advertisements in trade publications is well taken.
For years we focussed sales of these products to the Telephony market and believe we were able to properly service that market by working closely with a few large and well established distributors, and attending certain trade shows.
More recently we've engaged the services of a nationwide network of independent reps who sell to the Electrical/Electronic, Datacom and Security Markets. By holding frequent "counter days" and having in-store product displays, we believe we can make most of the potential staple gun users aware of our products while keeping our prices low. Trade advertising is also a possibility.
We are indeed in the process of up-dating our web site.
Thanks for your comments.
Acme Staple Company.

I'm glad everyone seems to think dtaples are OK...and I think I know now where the "no staples" rules started.

I'm loking at the latest Mohawk catalog, and in their "UTP Installation guide" it says:
"Do not use staples, either from a staple gun or mounting in a traditional manner with a hammer...."

I see no exception for any particular stapler. Mohawk goes on to say:

"D-rings, nail on straps, or velcro straps offer acceptable cable management techniques...."

Now, I would like to know if other cable makers have the same instructions.... and, if so, how ant tool maker can claim that his tool is "OK."

LOL!!!
LMAO!!!

Had to laugh when reading Hal's post regarding CNE carrying Net Geeks and their "Skullnick" (sp???) appearance.

Scott35

The 'no staples' rule started when the cable started getting installed (or shifted out of the way) using the Arrow T50 staplers that are used for insulation and vapor barriers. Those thing will squash the cable flat as a pancake if you don't know what you're doing.