I was looking at coax crimping tools yesterday, I am considering going with the "Snap and Seal" system. It was forty bucks for the crimper. The end result is very professional looking and supposedly water tight. Any recommendations from anyone? Also, where do you get those splitters with the rubber boots? Graybar?
I noticed the splitters at my supply house are 900MHZ, while the ones the cable company uses are 1000MHZ. Is there much of a difference in performance?
Thanks, Brian
There's a good question for the pro's.
Do we really need a fancy crimper or are the regular 'twist-on' RG-6 connectors I use good enough?
The Snap and Seal system, and others like it, are good for outside work but still require a sealing ring on the port before you screw on the connector. The connectors are comparatively expensive and not well suited to indoor installations. So, if you are a cable company and most of your connectors are outdoors this is for you.
I have only used hex crimp connectors and a Cable Prep crimper even when I was doing CATV work. The standard method of weather proofing connectors is a rubber or plastic "spark plug cable" boot filled with silicone grease and slid over the connector and port. Never had a problem with outdoor fittings made up this way even 10 or more years later.
I noticed the splitters at my supply house are 900MHZ, while the ones the cable company uses are 1000MHZ. Is there much of a difference in performance?
If the CATV system you are tied to only goes to 750Mhz (as many do) obviously a splitter that will work up to 900Mhz is just fine- and then some. On the other hand if the system goes to 1000Mhz and you are using 900Mhz splitters there could be some additional attenuation in that last 100Mhz, maybe, maybe not depending on how good the splitter is. Will it be noticable? Probably not but the practice is to use passives that are designed for at least the highest frequency that must be handled. 1000Mhz passives are standard these days for CATV, 2050Mhz for DBS and satellite.
Do we really need a fancy crimper or are the regular 'twist-on' RG-6 connectors I use good enough?
To put it simply the twist-on connectors are for DIY's.
-Hal
Thanks Hal! You are a wealth of information!
Hal, where does one get silicon grease, it is almost impossible to find? I bum spare tubes from the CATV guys almost everytime I have one around. Other than that... Not at Greybar, or anywhere else I know of.
I personally prefer compression connectors over crimp connectors. I started using snap-n-seal connectors over 10 years ago then switch to Digicon connectors a few years ago. I find the Digicon connectors to work better with RG-6 Quad cable. For inside use the crimp connectors will perform fine if installed properly but this applies to all connectors. I will not touch screw on connectors and have yet to see one installed properly.
For those who don't know what a Digicon connector looks like here is a picture.
Mark, is this what you are looking for?
Yep!
Had to pull up the picture properies to get the web site. No supply house around here carries it. Absolute essential for outdoor stuff.
http://www.arrisistore.com/product.php?pid=133148 Looks like an interesting site by the way.
Yup, Arris Telewire Supply but their web site really doesn't do them justice. Go right to the catalog which is tough to find-
http://www.arrisi.com/telewire_supply/_docs/TeleWire_Supply_Catalog.pdf There is also Toner Cable- and TVC-
http://www.tvcinc.com/ as well as North American cable-
http://www.northamericancable.com/ -Hal
[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 01-18-2005).]
Saw some splitters at Lowes last night that were rated at 1 Gigahertz!!! Is that overkill??
1Ghz is 1000Mhz
-Hal
oh. duh.
Not for when you are splitting satellite signals for a multi multiswitch or a stacked system.
Hal,
To put it simply the twist-on connectors are for DIY's.
I beg to differ there.
I only use them because there is no alternative for RG-59 cable used in Terrestrial TV systems over here.
And personally, I've often found that I can do a quicker job with the twist-ons.
I still prefer to use a crimp tool and radial crimp F-connectors.
Oddly enough, our F-con splitters and combiners here are 2.4GHz.
there is no alternative for RG-59 cable You can't get hex crimp connectors for 59 over there- how many do you want?
Can't believe twist-ons are what everybody uses.
Not for when you are splitting satellite signals for a multi multiswitch or a stacked system.Yes, for sat signal distribution you would use at least 2Ghz devices.
Oddly enough, our F-con splitters and combiners here are 2.4GHzGuess it depends on what services are the most common. Here it's CATV which can go up to 1000Mhz so that's why 1000Mhz splitters are available.
Most usual sat installations here wouldn't use splitters at all, might use a multiswitch at most. Only when you get into larger systems will these and other things become necessary so you have to have your sources for these items.
-Hal
I use the ideal which are very similar to the snap n seal. Never have trouble with them.
Oddly enough, our F-con splitters and combiners here are 2.4GHz.
Most RG6 I've used is sweep tested at/or around 2.4mhz. Used by Dish Net and/ or Direct, a requirement I believe for Sat systems
The term "RG" is used generically only to describe cable sizes based on the original copper braid/solid polyethylene dielectric construction. Therefore there are many RG-6 type cables however those constructed with a foam polyethylene dielectric and an 18ga center conductor will all exhibit the same attenuation characteristics. This is the case with cable swept to 1000Mhz or to 2500Mhz. That's not to say that one tested to 1000Mhz will not perform the same as one tested to 2500Mhz. There is no difference in the cables, only that perhaps the 2500Mhz one is selected from the "cream of the crop" and you can be sure of what you are getting.
-Hal
Good call there Hal!,
The RG is short for "Radio Gauge".
Thankfully RG-59 is on it's way out here with UHF TV and Satellite being used more often here.
Personally I'd go for the highest quality tools that I could get.
You only have to buy them once, (saving theft) they'll last you a lifetime.
Buy well, buy once.
tell you supply house to order 3M part no. SIL-5CC.
Silicone grease is also available at any auto-parts store as silicone dielectric grease. It's used for waterproofing sparkplug boots and underhood electrical connections.
not well suited to indoor installations.
Hal, what makes you say this about compression type connectors? I see them all the time indoors. I usually use the compression fittings, unless I run out and can only find the crimp connectors locally.
Edit: I guess you can't use BB codes here...
[This message has been edited by giddonah (edited 06-08-2005).]
From my point of view, the much larger hex on compression connectors makes them easier to work with, especially for indoor applications where the cables are more likely to be connected/reconnected in tight spaces.
I know that there are crimp connectors available with larger hexes, but they seem to be pretty hard to find. Decent compression connectors (PPC, sold under the Ideal name)are available at Lowes and Home Depot now.
I prefer Digicon compression connectors as well. Does anyone have a good website where I can purchase Digicon connectors as the one pictured here? I have not had any luck with the place I get mine now.
Thanks,
Dustin Kuhlman
brianl703,
Thank you for the link. I will give these a try and see if I have better luck.
Good source for all varieties of compression connectors, F, RCA, BNC Nickel & Gold, and tools. Also post unique RJ45 connectors.
www.unicornelex.com
I avoid twist on and push on connectors like the plague. RG-59 cable installations that used to work fine on the old cable system, suddenly cause problems when you get the new, digital cable ready box. Signal attenuation is severe at higher frequencies with 59 and slope also comes into play.
I istalled my dish over 6 years ago. It has a dual LNB and comes down to a dual grounding block. The connectors were nothing special, just good quality crimp ons. I used a good hex crimp, snugged then on with a wrench(not finger tight) and applied copious amounts of clear RTV. I have a drip loop in each cable and wouldn't consider not having them. My installation seems to be aging better than I am to date.
I don't think anyone mentioned that you have to think about DC characteristics of your splitter too. It may have to pass DC for a line amplifier or LNB.
There is one more characteristic of foam coax that nobody tends to consider but saved the day for me. It has a 78% velocity of propagation Vs 66% for RG-59. I had calculated the lengths of the video cables from all of our tape machines to both of our edit suite switchers to within 1/2". This was so that we could adjust the SC-H (subcarrier-horizontal) phase timing of a machine once and it was right for both edit suites. I was stuck because one machine-switcher run required a longer length than I had calculated. Then I remembered that foam had a 78% VP, recalculated my new length, and had a little to spare using RG-6. That is the only time I ever used foam coax in a baseband video application where Belden 8281 or 1163A were the standard.
Sorry if I bored anyone.
Joe
and applied copious amounts of clear RTV.
Waaayyy back when I did work for the cable companies there was an installer that liked to do the same thing. He nearly got strung up by the techs who went around doing disconnects and changes of service. Try standing on a 28 foot ladder out at the pole in zero degrees while having to whittle that friggin mess off with a knife so you could unscrew the connector!
Next time use a boot filled with silicone greese if you don't have snap-n-seals.
-Hal
[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 11-11-2005).]
I guess you made me feel better, Hal. In my case, I don't mind ticking off the guy who would stop my installation from working because he would be committing a crime. I can certainly see your point if you are having to make frequent changes in the wired cable biz. I really don't know Mr BigB or the nature of his application(s). You didn't hear any reports of my method being unreliable, did you? I'll definately admit that my connectors would take a little longer to remove, but the "Dish Mover" commercial tells me I'm supposed to firmly grasp the receiver and leave all that stuff up outside.
Joe
You didn't hear any reports of my method being unreliable, did you?
Actually, yes. The few that I have seen did have water infiltration. Even if you are successsful in encapsulating the entire connector with no pin holes, UV tends to cause deterioration and the adhesion to the cable or connector does break down. Even the smallest channel or opening will cause water to be sucked in.
Regardless, applying RTV like this in the field to a connector is not an accepted or reliable means of waterproofing. A boot (actually a spark plug boot) filled with a silicone grease will remain viscous and continue to flow and fill any voids that occur. I've seen connectors protected like this that have been in service for 30 years look and work like new. Clear RTV will turn yellow and start to deteriorate in a couple of years time.
-Hal
[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 11-12-2005).]
Thanks Hal! I checked it this summer but you inspired me to climb the stairs to the porch above the garage and eyeball things again. No sign of deterioration or water infiltration yet after 6 plus years. I did find a failed plastic anchor which I need to replace. It doesn't make sense to me to tear it apart to redo it. I'll probably just eyeball things semi-annually and check signal strength off the transponders and acquire the parts should things start going south.
Your method doesn't require special tooling, just boots with silicone so it wouldn't be cost prohibitive.
Thanks again,
Joe
Old VDV Post Time!
there is no alternative for RG-59 cable
You can't get hex crimp connectors for 59 over there- how many do you want?
Heheh, I have a 4X6in cable housing full of those that I found in my dad's truck.
I find the Digicon connectors to work better with RG-6 Quad cable. For inside use the crimp connectors will perform fine if installed properly but this applies to all connectors.
I use the Digicon connectors as well, seeing as I only have the tools for those, and know how to. Unfortunately, Comcast stopped using them for RG-6, since they're "too pricey," and now they use some no-name imports that work like ****. (Waste three to make one!) My father found a surplus bag of 100 in the supplies truck where he works; after that, they're all gone.
Ian A.
I use there connectors now. They work for both RG-6 and RG-6Q Cables They cost me about .35 Cents each
http://www.jw-ent.com/Images/ProductSheet662.pdf
I buy my coax connectors on E-bay. Any kind & make. Just bought some RG-11 Compression, very nice.
we use digicon exclusively. Even those for rg-59.