http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xSoCZaKRF0&feature=related

thoughts on this?

~S~

~s~:
Utube is unaccessable from office PC.

There has been a lot of counterfeit articles & a few videos floating around. Sq D with QO cbs, and one from NEMA on zip & extension cords.

I'll check out your link later from home.

HotOne,
they have a web site>

http://www.counterfeitcankill.com

i think it's the same crew

check this out>>>>


You will be sued for breach of contract, negligence, gross negligence, perhaps internal misrepresentation, strict liability or fraud. … You could face up to 10 years in prison, $5 million in fines and $10 million for the company for a first offense.”

William J. Ferguson, vice president of administration and general counsel for Babcock Power Inc

~S~

We've discussed this several times. Apart from encouraging our fellow workers to stick with established suppliers, there's not much that can be done at our level.

Overlooked in such dramatic press releases are two very relevant points.

The first is that the entire issue of counterfeit goods operates under the protection, even encouragement, of certain governemnts. The only way to 'police' one army is with another.

The other is that "respectable" manufacturers and vendors are more than happy to twist and abuse the system to further their own marketing plans and methods. If you look closely enough at many of the 'counterfeit' seizures made, they are of genuine parts that the original manufacturer intended for marketing overseas - so called 'gray market' goods.

ok, lemme ask how to keep it clean here, the man in the video is telling us to look for UL's new improved label Reno, but i believe we could be buying electrical goods under a variety of NRTL labels> (from Wiki)


OSHA, an agency of the United States Department of Labor, publishes a list of Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories (NRTLs). The testing laboratories test products and certify if they pass standards tests.

Organizations Currently Recognized by OSHA as NRTLs:

Canadian Standards Association (CSA) (also known as CSA International)
Communication Certification Laboratory, Inc. (CCL)
Curtis-Straus LLC (CSL)
Electrical Reliability Services, Inc. (ERS) (also known as eti Conformity Services and formerly Electro-Test, Inc. (ETI))
FM Approvals LLC (FM) (formerly Factory Mutual Research Corporation)
Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc. (ITSNA) (formerly ETL)
MET Laboratories, Inc. (MET)
NSF International (NSF)
National Technical Systems, Inc. (NTS)
QPS Evaluation Services, Inc. (QPS)
SGS U.S. Testing Company, Inc. (SGSUS) (formerly UST-CA)
Southwest Research Institute (SWRI)
Technischer Überwachungsverein (TÜV)
Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL)
Wyle Laboratories, Inc. (WL)


so, how are we supposed to keep up with a dozen+ labels?

~S~

The other is that "respectable" manufacturers and vendors are more than happy to twist and abuse the system to further their own marketing plans and methods.

yeah, you know what really gets my goat, these so called captains of our industry speaking like they're so concerned about us are the free traitors who pursued 3rd world labor to manufacture their products in the first place

then they take out full page ads in the trade rags, with an electrican behind bars

with appologies to Joe Walsh>



Sometimes I can't help but thinkin' that I'm workin' a trade of illusion

And oh why can't we let it be and see through the hole in this market collusion

I just can't help but feeling I'm workin' a trade of illusion



Pow,right between the eyes Oh how market loves her little surprises

Wow,it all seems so logical now It's just one of her better disguises



And it comes with no warning the market loves her little surprises

Continual crisis

~S(busking for bail $$$) parky~

Ul's advice>
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/services/programs/anticounterfeitingoperations/program/

webinar>

http://www.ecmag.com/video/?id=14&filename=GE%5FAnticounterfeit%5FWebinar%2Eflv

webinar page>

http://www.ecmag.com/video/?id=14&filename=GE_Anticounterfeit_Webinar



58 minutes of my time to learn that everyone short of Homeland Security is on it

and nobody has a universal solution to it

~S~

The problem is so pervasive that I am not sure what a "safe" distribution network really is. They have found counterfeits big name stores.
We had an inspector stumble into some suspect appliances in Miami and by the time the cops got there, the place was cleaned out. I am sure those appliances made their way into "scratch and dent" stores or were sold on the internet.

well then, what about those 50 fake electrical goods sites they're taking about?

why can't we (by we, i mean EC's) get a list of those?

i've surfed around, perhaps i've missed it but so far no soap

anyone?
~S~

Check the Electrical Safety Foundation International site for their DVD covering this subject.

this one?>

http://www.esfi.org/index.cfm/page/Counterfeits-Can-Kill-DVD/cdid/10836/pid/3003

again, we have the captains of industry on their hind feet barking up their integrity

they also have the unmitigated gall to openly suggest that buying conterfeits cause job loss, after outsourcing every possible widget make to 3rd world countries

further, they imply deputizing the EC contingent towards identification of counterfieting

well, i would think publicizing those 50 counterfiet web sites we're told exist would be a grand start for any EC, badge or no badge


so where are they?

is there some curveball character we need to see?

~S~

~s~:
A quick google look around seems to have a lot of 'dated' info ('07-09).

Also it seems to be an issue in Europe (England)

I see your points regarding a lot of things going 'off shore', and that sure did not help this situation. However, those that mfg the 'junk' would sure find a way, even if the real items were made in the good ol' USA.

Recent find of 'bad' Sq D QO's were very, very hard to detect from the real things. IMHO, your average & above average sparky would have a very difficult time. The 'wholesalers' should have a better shot, but they may be making $$$$.

As said before...buy from a reputable source, and you should be OK. Bargains can come back to bite!

Well, if I were to go into business making counterfeit circuit breakers, I'd at least build in a narrow strip of conductor inside it to act like a fuse if a fault were to occur. A fused switch. "@#$$@ circuit breaker won't reset! And I thought Square D was a quality brand. %$#%^%#!". Idea being that the user will just think he got bad product, but not burn the place down, inviting an investigation. And I'd make illegal profit, as a fuse link is much cheaper than a real circuit breaker mechanism.

I like to cut things apart that fail in an unexpected way. That trick would become apparent pretty fast.

It is now estimated that 1 in 36 of all one pound coins in circulation in the UK are forgeries. Over 2 million were detected and destroyed in 2010 alone. Now who do you suppose has the manufacturing and distribution ability to accomplish that kind of volume?

Alan:
Since I'm on this side of the pond...
What is the metal composition of the pound coin?
Is the same metal composition used in the fakes?

H: It's a small brass-colored coin, about 7/8" in diameter, made of copper-zinc-nickel, current value about US $1.60. There are about 1.4 billion in circulation. It's quite thick, about an eighth-inch, with 'Decus et Tutamen' [a decoration and a protection] impressed in the edge milling, a quote from Virgil, making forgery quite difficult. The Queen's head is on the face of all British coins, [changing as she gets older, she is now in her eighties, crowned 1953], the obverse designs change regularly. There's a two-pound and a five-pound coin too, brass with a nickel colored inner disc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_pound_(British_coin)
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=e...=2&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=

Alan:
Thank you!! It seems to me that someone who is being creative enough, sure is not choosing a high value of currency to forge. That seems equivilent to printing $1 US bills, instead of $50 or $100 bills.

The advantage in counterfeiting small denominations is nobody pays much attention to them. These days in paper, they might just be using a laser printer.
I agree coins are tougher to make but they also tend to have less detail to copy.

We have another problem. Our Mint also makes Swaziland's lilangeni from exactly the same blanks. At 14 to the £ these swamp certain area's vending machines!
Paper money is getting harder to forge. Our notes are made with a special tough cotton rag with a crisp 'feel' and are intaglio printed, with a hologram. Even a blind person can feel a litho or laser copy £ is duff, as intaglio indents the note on the engraving lines.

BTW. The Nazis forced jewish experts in WWII to make perfect copies of our old black and white 'fivers'. These were dropped over England in vast numbers: And practically every one was handed in to the police! The forgers failed to make perfect US dollars, defeated by your rotary press method which slightly distorts the printing.