Every job we bid has specifications. Quite often, specific light fixtures are called for, or they want you to do more than 'code minimum.'
As an example, one job I am currently doing specifies steel fittings with plastic bushings - rather than the usual die-cast zinc. Some of the wire sizes called out are also larger than 310.16 would require.

So- here's the question:

Assume you've lost a bid. Do you re-visit the job to verify the 'cheap guy' is meeting the requirements of the job? Or, do you leave it to the customer to enforce his plans?

Leave it to the customer to enforce his plans.

What might be done is to submit two quotes, with the second one proposing certin changes to control costs, this will usually make them aware, the cost can be controlled, and at the same time, draw their attention to the higher specs. in the bid.

Is this question related to my voltage drop comment?

One of my really bad habits, is I don’t follow up on bids with the GC like I probably should and am shameless about visiting jobs I lost to see who got it and how they are doing it if I felt my bid was good.

As an absolute rule, I never bad mouth my completion, no matter how much they deserve it and its not my place to police them either. I do however sometimes visit the job sites and see what they are doing different and either see a better way to do something or learn how they are cutting a corner to beat me. It’s an ego, thing for me for when I just know my number was good.

BTW since the price of zinc has gone through the roof, you should be only be stocking steel fittings anyway, and if you buy in large enough quantity the throated connectors are the same price as the non-throated. Right now I only stock steal, SS and Comp, in throated and they will work for any job.

Ito, I will confess that your comment did suggest this thread to me .... and, since there's no single 'right' answer, I thought it would be a good opportunity to discuss one facet of 'business ethics.'

You are correct - at this moment - as to the pricing of fittings (zinc vs. steel). We both know that this is an unusual situation.

I'm sure we've all bid jobs, lost them ... only to return later, and see the work performed was quite a bit different from what you bid. I've had a few conversations go like this:
Cust: You were way higher
Me: What was built was not what I bid on.
Cust: Oh? How's that?
Me: You asked for X, I bid on X, and Y was done.

Now, granted, most of my work is for a handful of regular customers, who are occasionally required to put a larger job up for bid. Sometimes I lose these bids. Often I will get the change order to complete the work.

I am not assuming that the 'cheap guy' is doing anything improper. We all know prints are filled with 'mines", little details that will blow up on you if you miss them. We are also often caught in a rut at the supply house: either we take what they feel like having in stock, or we have to order, wait, and pay, pay, pay.



Some of the blame also lies with plans that include unnecessary specifications that do nothing except increase the cost of the job.

Here is how mine go:

GC- Your bid is too high
ITO- Really, how high?
GC- The other guy gave me a price 50% less than yours.
ITO-Wow that is a good price, you had better give him the contract.
GC-Aren’t you going to lower your price?
ITO- My price may not be the low price but it’s the right price, and I am sticking to it.
GC- What is the difference?
ITO- Experience, one of us has more. Maybe its him, maybe its me… if he gave you that price in writing I would get him under contract fast before he figures it out.

Unless I've made a gross error in calculating a bid, the price given is not up for negotiation. In my opinion, you lose credibility by lowering your price after submitting a bid. As for following up lost bids, I don't generally bother. Everyone has a different style of workmanship or what materials were used, so a lot of times it's like comparing apples to oranges. Also, there are some corners that I won't cut just to get a job.

It really bites when you bid a job as per plans and specs with hard pipe, steal fittings, and up sized home runs only to find out they guy who got it is doing the whole thing with #12 MC.

I lost a bid job a decade back that still burns me up quite a bit. It was a rooftop package exchange job- several large units. The specs clearly stated rigid 2" and 3" conduits be run out to the units. I submit my bid and hear back that I was "way too high" compared to the next company. About a year later I was back up on that same roof to do a service work job and what did I get to see? EMT conduits, with set screw fittings no less out in the weather. And to top it, I know there was a permit pulled and so therefore in theory an inspection done.....

I get a lot of questions during the bidding period on the jobs that I design; and I try to keep a fair and level playing field.

I tell the bidders that redesign and substitute 'may' be acceptable, but that waiving any part of the requirements during bidding wouldn't be fair to everyone.

I also tell them that they are welcome to submit 2 prices; 1 per plans and specs and 1 that assumes that their changes are acceptable.

I tell the Owner during the bid reviews that he needs to look at BOTH numbers in order to make up his mind who to award it to; and I walk him through it as best as I can. This has worked very well in the past as there is a reduced incentive to make unapproved changes while whining "but I didn't bid it that way".

BTW, I answer the whines by insisting that the subsequent Change Order meeting include a copy of the bid exclusions from the initial bid. If it was listed as being excluded, we'll talk about more money. If it wasn't excluded, we have a very short meeting. I've been in far too many situations where work was actually included but the Contractor was coming up short in his profits and tried to play games.

One major job that I did came to a screeching halt when the Architect (sometimes they're pretty sharp) asked if the Bid was 'plans & specs' and got a YES. Halfway throught the meeting the Contractor said that his substitution "met the Code and that's what we bid". The next question was from the Architect who asked "So did you bid plans & specs or did you bid Code-minimum? Which one of your conflicting statements was the lie?"
WOW! Talk about a deer-in-the-headlights look.

With all due respect Ghost307, unless you do a site visit and verify that it was built as per plans and specs then you don't really know, and I only see engineers walk my big work they almost never walk my small retail stuff (300K and down), but an owners rep will sometimes walk it and they don’t really know either.

ITO, no offense taken.

I understand that there will still be situations where the honest bidders will end up with the short end of the stick, but I try to level the field wherever I can.

If I see shortcuts that never got priced in the beginning of the job, I become a MAJOR pain in everyone's behind. I've had feeders pulled back to replace the conduit connectors with the right ones. I had 1 Contractor try to substitute plastic wallplates instead of the priced (and paid for) stainless steel ones, and I didn't let go until the Owner got a $41,000 credit on the job (huge job).

I know that didn't help the losing bidders out, but at least the lowball guy didn't get to keep the money for something that he didn't do.

I've been described as a "pit bull with AIDS" when I find someone being taken advantage of. I know that there will always be people taking unfair advantage of each other, but I try to do what little I can in my small corner of the universe.

BTW, I caught a Contractor using 1900 boxes where the Owner had paid for cast ones. It got 'kicked upstairs' to be settled after 8 months, but I was refusing to release about $740,000 on a gigantic project. I may not win every time, but at least that guy will remember me when trying to undercut the next job.

...and no, I'm not a bad guy to have to work with; but I hate people who cheat and try to get away with something. Ask, and we'll talk about it; try to submarine me, and we're going to have issues. One Contractor told me in a kickoff meeting that an electrician in his shop told him that I could be a nice guy or an a@@hole, and it was entirely his call as to which one he'd be dealing with.

Overall, I'll work with and play nice with anybody; as long as everybody else plays nice too.

Sometimes... a guy can miss a spec item like cast boxes.

Its when they plans call for a full conduit system on the data/tele and they put "ring and string" in that burns me up.

That cast box wasn't just in the spec; it was on the drawings, showed up on several details and was tagged in the shop drawing submittals. But it's too long a story to go into detail here.
Feel free to send me a PM if you want the whole skinny.

I hate the "ring and string" installs. That's one of the things I tell the bidders to list if they're in doubt.
If 1 bidder offers a credit of $11k to omit the conduit system, and his competition offers nothing; that's a good sign to the Owner of who read the proposal and who's just lowballing a price out of their ....ummmm.... ear.

I'll take your word for it.

Owners are a big part of the problem, they hear that one low price and no matter what happens from that point on they are locked on to that one number as the "right price", even it is not.