1. Is a general contractor or framing contractor can hire an electrician (who is not licensed contractor) on pay roll to do electrical side of residential project?
2. When general contractor applies for job permit does he has to give electrical contractor name to permit issuing authority?

Depends on how the licensure laws are worded in your AHJ / county / state. See your 2nd question:


Once again, depends on the laws that govern general contractors. If the GC is the one pulling the permit, then no, AFAIK. If the EC is listed as a separate entity, then yes, but then the EC would have to pull his own permit for all electrical work on site.

to answer your question,

if you are not licensed, you can be hired for whatever they want you to do, but you can't pull a permit (in most states, that require licenses) and the GC you are working for is doing something shady.

i am assuming you are the electrician hired by the GC...

Or lost a job due to a moonlighter/hack

dang moonlighters...hey none of that crazy talk here....

No I am C10 licensed contractor.
General contractor had awarded this job to me but it was not written. Now he told me that framing contractor has an electrician and he is hiring him on payroll because this way it will be a lot cheaper for him.

[This message has been edited by electricman786 (edited 12-27-2006).]

As long as the general contractor (B license) is responsible for 2 or more unrelated trades their employees are permitted to do the electrical wiring or almost any of the specialty trades. Their employees are NOT required to be certified either unlike electrical contractors (C10).

This has been my biggest gripe of the new certification requirements. General contractors, HVAC contractors and landscape contractors can install all of the wiring they want and their employees don’t have to be certified. If we are going to require certification it need to apply to all workers performing electrical work.

Curt

Is this not true that when general contractor gets his license he has to declare and take trade test for specialty trade to get his license from contractors license board.

Every general contractor takes the same trade exam that covers a little bit of everything. They only have to take a specialty trade exam if they want to hold a license for that specialty. Since most general contractors are doing at lease 2 trades on a project a specialty license is not required.

Curt

So curt you are saying that GC can do specialty work even without having complete knowledge of that trade. If this is true then you are right that it is very unfair with us C10 contractors that our employs should be certified to do same job (electrical)GC's employees can do with or with out certification.

and I thought NJ was bad

It seems like my original perception of General Building Contractors performing other than General Framing / Carpentry, is incorrect, or at least in need of revisions!

Originally thought that Limited Specialty Trades (other than General Framing / Carpentry) performed by General Building Contractors holding a California "B" License, was if the Contracting Firm also held License for the Specialty Trade:

* either in conjunction to the "B" License; such as "B, C10" under one qualifying individual and one Contractor's License number - with the appropriate Alpha-Numeric prefix (example: B, C10 012345),

* or if there is an RME / RMO holding a Limited Specialty Trade License;
such as an "In-House" Electrical Contracting division - resulting in "B" License and "C10" License held by different qualifying individuals, and possibly under separate CSLB numbers (example: B 999999, C10 000001).

It appeared to me that the General Contractor may take a Prime Contract for General Framing & Carpentry Project; and in addition, take Prime Contract for unrelated Specialty Trades:

* if these Projects are subcontracted by Licensed Subcontractors,

or

* if the General Contractor holds the appropriate Specialty Trade License.

In my experiences working within General Engineering & Building Contracting firms (A, B), which include an "In-House" Electrical Division (C10), I will obtain Permits for the Electrical portion (most likely after I have submitted Plans for examination and they are approved). Some times also obtain the Building Permit too.

We do not obtain the Mechanical (HVAC) or Plumbing Permits, as these will be obtained by the Subcontractor who is awarded that Subcontract.

S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure) for me working as part of an "In-House" firm, is to obtain Electrical Permits by submitting the following items:

* Completed Application for Electrical Permit,
* Business License for that City / County,
* Proof of Workers' Comp. Insurance (carrier name, policy number, expiry date),
* C10 License Number + expiry date,
* Contractor's Tax ID Number (FEIN),
* Social Security Number,
* Business information,
* Project's estimated value (contract value),
* Approved Plans,
* Total Permit and Counter Fees (this one is very important!!!).

When I pull both an Electrical Permit and a Building Permit for a given Project, they follow along the same lines as shown above, and normally result in two (2) individual Permit / Plancheck numbers being issued.
Some times two (2) separate job cards (Inspection Report Cards) will be issued, normally only one (1) job card is issued (depends on the AHJ).

Have never obtained Permits for Mechanical or Plumbing, nor do I ever plan to (have no clue what they would involve!).

Until now, it seemed like a General Contractor (B License) could obtain the Building Permit, and perform Framing + Carpentry
(and whatever in-house specialty trades that they hold license for),
then subcontract the "MEP" trades to individual licensed subcontractors.

These subcontractors are responsible for obtaining the permits for their trade installations, along with scheduling inspections + job walks with the inspector.

If it is indeed true that "B" Licensed General Contractors may _LEGALLY_ have their Employees perform limited specialty trade work - WITHOUT the Contractor (or RME/RMO) being required to also hold the appropriate Licensing (such as C10), that just flat-out SUCKS!!!

(Exception - HACKS / El-Cheap'O GCs:
unless the G.C. has people performing the specialty tasks _ILLEGALLY_;
as in without the appropriate Permit being issued, and consequentially - in lack of better terms... "Sans Inspection!!!)

That would be the biggest joke in the complexity of the California Construction Comedy Club, we deal with today!


Sounds to me like this:

("Quoted" text is simply my extreme rage at the scenario, not any copied text from members, nor is it any type of insult to anyone performing work as a General Laborer.
I just have never seen any General Laborers, who were also extremely affluent Journeyman / Foreman Electricians - not that they don't exist, just that I have never seen of any).

Please excuse the rant, and as I exit the Soapbox (man, we really need an Animated GIF "Emoticon" for that one!), would like to know what is going on with this issue!

Scott35

General contractor had awarded this job to me but it was not written.

1) If it was not in writing , then it was never awarded.

2) If the situation about a GC is allowed to do the electrical, with his own workers, than, what what is the Electrical License for a wall decoration?

3) I would recommend every independent Electrical Contractor in your state, get together, and as a large unified block, rewrite the laws to give the consumers real protection.

Might want to deliver the proposal to the state house with torches, and full independant membership, so they remember to look at it
I was checking to see how long it took Jersey independant contractors to get the laws working for both the consumer and the contractors, and it started in 1964 and real enforcement is just starting this year, so the process is a bit slow.




[This message has been edited by LK (edited 12-29-2006).]

It is indeed true.
A GC can't do Fire Protection, or drill wells. Otherwise,

From CA Contractor's Law:
"A general building contractor may take a prime contract or a subcontract for a framing or carpentry project. However, a general building contractor shall not take a prime contract for any project involving trades other than framing or carpentry unless the prime contract requires at least two unrelated building trades or crafts other than framing or carpentry, or unless the general building contractor holds the appropriate license classification or subcontracts with an appropriately licensed contractor to perform the work. A general building contractor shall not take a subcontract involving trades other than framing or carpentry, unless the subcontract requires at least two unrelated trades or crafts other than framing or carpentry, or unless the general building contractor holds the appropriate license classification. The general building contractor may not count framing or carpentry in calculating the two unrelated trades necessary in order for the general building contractor to be able to take a prime contract or subcontract for a project involving other trades".
_____________________________________________

Permit issued, no problem.
The 2 (or more) unrelated trades can be performed by a day laborer from the parking lot of the Home Depot.

caselec's very valid objection to the CA journeyman cert was precisely this. The cert law applies only to C-10 (electrical) specialty contractors.








[This message has been edited by electure (edited 12-30-2006).]