How long do you guys stay on hourly rate for service call? Lets say someone calls with no power to outlets and the wire from outlet to outlet needs to be replaced. Do you stay on hourly the whole time through the repair, or just till you find the problem and give them a price for the repair?

I guess the simplest answer is whatever makes them happy. I do very little T&M now, but I did it for years. Some of those older clients prefer T&M and if that makes them happy, it's fine with me. With new client I'd talk about a troubleshooting charge to locate the problem, then bid the repair.

The tough one for me so far is that I can find some problems in 5 minutes, others take much, much longer, so the troubleshooting fee is a guess. You can try to make it up in the repair bid.

Dave

Our retail customers demand T&M. they will not accept flat rate pricing. If you don't offer T&M -Bye bye! So, we have no choice if we want to keep them as customers. They also demand only cost+25% mark up on materials. As we all know, there are handyman shops waiting in line to offer discount electrical services to anyone!

Our retail customers demand T&M. they will not accept flat rate pricing. If you don't offer T&M -Bye bye! So, we have no choice if we want to keep them as customers. They also demand only cost+25% mark up on materials.

Sounds like your attitude needs to be adjusted! Since when does the customer dictate what prices they want to pay?

-Hal

I think that in the long run the customer always dictates what they are willing to pay and what they are willing to pay for. The American Automobile Industry is a good example. For years they thought the public would buy whatever was made. When competition was introduced into the market and they found out that they were wrong. Same thing with the phone companies. If you don't have a lot of competition , it's easier to name your price and your service. If the competition is strong then you must give the customer what they want. The idea is to make the customer believe they want what you are selling. The American people think that they wish to pay big bucks for SUV's ( a four wheel drive station wagon , that doesn't get good gas mileage ). If the hourly rate is high enough then a flat bid will look attractive.

Growler, you are talking about legitimate competion. LearJet9 isn't.

As we all know, there are handyman shops waiting in line to offer discount electrical services to anyone!

If you have to bring your prices down to that level just to get work you are better off flipping burgers at McDonalds! Matter of fact that's probably where you will be in a short time.

They also demand only cost+25% mark up on materials.

There is probably nothing that would get me more furious than a customer telling me how much I was supposed to make. Especially those who want to know what I paid for material and tell me how much I can mark it up. Do that and you are a dead man! That's the same as telling me I have no right to support my family or live in a nice house.

LearJet9, just the tone of your post sets me off. You sound like a battered wife. "The customer demands"- who the hell are they to demand anything from you... unless you let them.

-Hal

Hal, you are right about not trying to compete with handymen ( you can't, they don't have any overhead ). I think that learjet may be talking about certain commercial customers where you have to give T&M pricing up front before you can even get on the job. That's not really a problem if you keep your hourly pricing high. Then you add travel & administrative and late fees. I think most of these places are trying to keep you from working 30 minutes and sending in a $900.00 invoice. I make it clear up front that there is a 2 hr. minimum plus any fees but it's a lot better than them thinking that I'll charge what ever I want. Some of these places want a cap on price without authorization from the top. I don't see this as a problem, while they are making a decision , you are on the clock. If you need to come back, then that is a seperate service call. The customer needs to know that you are always using standard business practices for the industry.

Don't know about that. "Retail" customers and handymen make me think residential.

If you are doing T&M the customer should know up front what your hourly rates are and how they are computed. I know some companies that fax over an authorization to the customer that explains the rates they will be charged. It must be signed by an owner or other person with authority and faxed back before any work can start. That way there there should be no surprises.

Flat rate they have the entire cost up front so I can't see what they would complain about. If you are there for 1/2 hour and give them a flat rate bill for $900 you should already have justified it- again get it in writing.

Anybody customer that takes the time to research material prices to argue with me or asks for the prices I pay my supplier is an insult to my intelligence. As I said I have zero tolerance for that practice and the relationship with that customer will end right there.

-Hal

I'll chime in. (you had to know that would happen)

hbiss and growler, I agree with Learjet on this one.

Some of my clients are rather big, management ain't stupid. they didn't get to where they are by not knowing the cost of services.

If a guy came in to them with a pricing book, or some kind of set fees for things, no doubt you are out the door, never to be invited back again.

A good businessman, knows the cost of things, he knows he has to pay you travel time, he knows about markup, he has been around. Heck, some of my clients have their own electrical depts. They know the cost of goods already, sometimes when I run out of a conduit fitting or wirenut, I get a couple from them. If I went in there and charged him 300% markup, and guessed at prices to what I felt it should cost, or pulled out some price book, I would be out looking for work in no time.

Granted there are managers who have no clue what things cost, and can be easly manipulated, but that is not my, or Learjets customer base. I think him and myself probably have a totally differrent client base than what you are discussing.

My customers are to intelligent, you can't pull one over on them.


Dnk.....

Hal, you are 100% correct.
Two years ago I was facing looseing a couple of good Commercial accounts. These guys supplied me with a large amount of work.

This is what they did:
They started hammering me on my invoices, whining about how long it took to do this and how much material cost.
They hired a maintinence man (handy-man type) to do light work, elec,pluming, drywall.... (who soon took over all maint)
They then asked to see my margins Profit, O/H and Material Mark-up. They blamed that on Corprate.
They started delaying payments in to 90-120 days. (Oh that invoice isn't even in our system yet...are you sure you mailed it?)

I tried to convince them the pricing was fair and to talk to other EC's to compair the numbers.
This obviously went on for a while. The stress level got real high, so I dumped them and a few others too. My wife said we were done for financially and I was scared.
But you know that was only the begining of realizing that I could actually charge a little more money with fewer customers as long as the quality of workmanship remained high.
As a note in my experiences the type of customers most often trying to beat you up were Property Managers, Commercial or Residential & a few GC's

I am a company with no employees now, so this can be different with other companies or in different areas.

This is only my opinion in my little corner of the world. Sometimes you have to take a big chance to correct things.

Respectfully submitted
Rob

[This message has been edited by sierra electrician (edited 07-30-2005).]

I don't see anything wrong with doing T&M for some jobs. I have a auto shop that just calls and says we need this and this and that and do it, no questions. I charge them by the hr and mark up the parts some, 25% is not bad to me.
To me this is for small projects only. Anything large that requires planning and product ordering is a price job, my way or the highway.
Maybe we should be reporting guys working with no lic where one is required or push to have a lic required in your area if it is not already. This can only help our industry in the future.

Service calls, vs. established customers...completely different worlds.

Ms. Yellow Pages calls you and says her living room light isn't working any more....could you come and look at it?
In that scenario, you explain your 'trip charge," go out there, look at things, see what's involved, then stop and talk to her. You tell her the foozewhopper is shot, and the doppleganger needs calibration, that this will probably take three hours, cost $220,- would next Tuesday be ok? Or Wednesday? Oh, and could she get the piano moved, so you can access the attic? Then you charge her for the trip charge, or diagnosis time, whichever is more.


In the other situation, prpperty manager Mr, Reg Cust calls. You go out and look it over, and give him your estimate. You might discuss with him how he wants your bill presented, and adjust your numbers to match.
Now, maybe he just calls and says "do it." T&M can be a very good way to do business- IF there is a well developed trusting relationship between the two of you. The sort of relationship where you don't charge him for that unnecessary second trip to the parts house, and he has no problem paying for delays caused by unforseen problems, or for time you spent in your shop fabricating the thing that took only 15 minutes to install.
"Parts expenses" are one area where that trust can be destroyed. Anyone out there ever hear about the hospital that charged $100 for an aspirin? It just doesn't fly.....the customer isn't going to agree to pay you $20 for a part he can get at the box store for $3.
Add to that other things that run up parts charges....buying a whole new fixture, just for that one piece, or paying for shipping, and there's plenty of room for unhappiness.

Service calls, vs. established customers...completely different worlds.
__________________________________________________

Service work & Contract(Bid)Work are different

I do Service Work for Established Customers all the time.
Man times the regular customer calls with no time for Quotes to have work done.
Many times I quoted replacing lamps in a 2X4 troffer.
Both can be done and still make money.

Rob

Hi guys,I am new to the forum but I feel as if I should say something on this topic. Ihave started charging double my rate for the first hour and a regular rate for each additional hour after that. I know of some guys who charge "port to port" and seem to have no resentment from their customers. I am not so lucky. I do explain the rates for this and customers usually seem reluctant to go for T & M as well as I am reluctant to do it. It seems the majority of the problems (usually) are ones we have come across before and therefore don't take so long. The customers look at you when you finish the problem quickly as if to say,"You still plan to charge me full price,you were only here 5 minutes" Meanwhile, I am thinking what am I going to do with the rest of the day. That didnt pay my wages for the day let alone profit for the business.

Some of my clients are rather big, management ain't stupid. they didn't get to where they are by not knowing the cost of services.

I'm not saying that you should get away with overcharging. What I am saying is that you base your prices on making a fair profit for you or your company depending on your financial situation. Your labor charges and material markup are based on that. If you charge less your profit decreases and at some point you will begin to lose money. You have to decide how much you can take.

You are right, they ain't stupid and they didn't get to where they are by not saving the company (or themselves) money. Believe me, your profits don't mean a thing to them. When you are gone they will just find another sucker and their boss will pat them on the back.

-Hal

Just a note on material mark-up, the burden costs for purchasing and stocking material, is a real cost, incured by a real business.

Example: 1/2" pipe may have a mark-up of 300% depending on how many times you have to move it, and anyone operating industrial or commercial operations should be aware of these costs.

Another issue, the customer knows what the material costs, yes he may, i know what a spark plug costs, but when i need my truck repaired, i would not question the service station on his mark-up, that is if i intend to have any work done there in the future, He has overhead and operating expenses to support, and so do you.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 07-30-2005).]

The customers look at you when you finish the problem quickly as if to say,"You still plan to charge me full price,you were only here 5 minutes"

And you look them straight in the eyes and say "our minimum service call charge is $____. Doesn't matter if I'm here 1 minute or 1 hour. Unless you have something else for me to look at I'll prepare your bill."

Oh, and yes I do tend to get excited over this. A fellow EC and long time friend of mine had a customer grab him by the shirt and "inform" him that he had no right to charge any more for material than he paid for it. I've not been that unlucky but I have had my share of customers that didn't think my markup was to their liking. Any customer that pulls something like that is only out for one thing and that's to screw you.

-Hal

[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 07-31-2005).]

You have to love when they also decide to do something else "while you're there anyway". For example, change a dimmer. Well it just so happens I carry alot of dimmers on my truck. I go out, get the dimmer,change the dimmer charge handsomely for the dimmer. The customer is shocked and I have to explain that if it was some other contractor that they may be paying $65.00 an hour for them to shop for the dimmer plus the cost and typical markup on the dimmer. In addition now I have to restock that item back on the truck. I dont just go out in the garden at my house and pull one from the dimmer tree.

This is beginning to remind me of a story I once heard....

At one of the Dams out West, the power output was seriously reduced one day. Try as they might, the engineers were not able to figure out why this was so, let alone fix the problem. Then someone recalled that "George" knew what to do in this situation.
Well, as it turns out, George had retired some years before. So they look him up, track him down, bring him into the plant, and explain the problem.
George says "Sure, I can fix it!" He then borrows a hammer, and, accompanied by a parade of management types, preceeds to walk into the miles of catwalks and piping within the dam. He reaches a place, gives the pipe a solid whack, and all is well.
Soon after, the PoCo gets a bill from George for $10000. Somewhat taken aback by the size of the bill, the PoCo askd for an "itemised" invoice.
George responded "$25 for hitting the pipe. $9975 for knowing where to hit it!


The point to keep in mind is that we, as professionals, are paid as much for our knowledge and experience as anything else. We are not parts stores, nor simply retarded apes doing grunt work.
Sometimes the customer doesn't really appreciate that fact. The best "cure" is to let him hire a hack a few times.

LK, why do you pay for estimates?

I have never paid anyone for an estimate for anything that I can rememmber.

There are to many other people, looking to drum up business, that will quote you a price for free.


Dnk.....

Right and how do these guys get away with it? I'll tell you. It's because we are stupid. Most of us are not businessmen we are electricians. See how the appliance repair guy gets a credit card before even leaving the shop? Customer doesn't like it? Call somebody else and they want a credit card too! Try and get your car back from the shop without paying in full. Don't like the charges? You'll be driving the shoe leather express until you pay up.

Then you get people in our industry who say that the customer demands this and that and if I don't knuckle under I won't have any work. BS! Those guys above seem to have plenty of work.

-Hal

Hal, I don't think we are stupid.

I am just saying, I would never pay for an estimate, sounds pretty smart to me.

However some people will, and if you can cater to them, you got something going.

I even bet someone could make a business out of giving estimates. If the roofers charged $150 for an estimate, then bid the job so high no-one would take you seriously. That would be about $150hr for no work involved, except taking a ladder off the truck.

Pretty good money for nothing.


Dnk.....

I am just saying, I would never pay for an estimate, sounds pretty smart to me.

And what I'm saying is if we ALL charged for estimates people like you wouldn't have a choice. That's what garages, appliance service and other trades do and that's pretty smart.

If a customer doesn't like one EC's deal they can always find another who they can take advantage of.

-Hal

""And what I'm saying is if we ALL charged for estimates people like you wouldn't have a choice. """


Now that's not a good statement, not giving consumers a choice?

Now that is excatly what the "scammers" that I refer to in other posts say, I hope you really didn't mean it.

If you do, you are scaring me.


Dnk..........

Not everyone who calls is your customer!

Somebody wants T&M, or oversee our material costs and mark-up........Not our customer.

Somebody wants a free estimate......Not our customer.

Somebody needs managements permission to OK a bill or terms of payment other than upon completion........Not our customer

That doesn't mean their not somebody's else customer, or that a different type of EC than us can't serve them and be profitable. It simply means we can't.

Clearly defining what and how you deliver your services, allows you to manage your business and retain your profitability. Catering to every possible call and situation allows you to maintain your "job" that you can't quit. Probably not the dream you envisioned when you decided to open your business.

Thank you, wilkie, well said.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 07-31-2005).]

Now that's not a good statement, not giving consumers a choice?

Why should I have to give consumers a choice? Why is that my job and what's that have to do with scamming? Now you are scaring me.

For instance if I take the lead from the rest of the EC's in a town and realize that free estimates to tire kickers are costing me money why shouldn't I start charging for them? That's a business decision and there is nothing dishonest about it. If a customer can't find someone who will give them a free estimate that's not my problem.

-Hal

Thanks Wilkie, Yes we should move forward and not worry about what the other ECs want to Charge.

For all I know he could do things cheaper because he had called another EC posing as a Customer to see what his rate is and shaved a few dollars off to be cheaper.

Then the EC he called could of done the same

Hal - DNK is correct, our customer base (retail/commercial) covers a very wide spectrum. Some of these guys are very sharp about electrical (and other) service. While we do have minimums some of the larger retail customers have a T&M requirement after the minimum is met.

Free estimates? We stopped that practice several years ago. Because of the customer base we choose to work for. If allowed, they would use us as a pricing service so we decided that there would be no free quotes.

I think it also has to do with how busy, ones business is.

Why pay someone to do estimates if they can be making money at a job?

On the flip side, if you have someone not doing anything, why not send him out doing free estimates, to drum up more business?


Or charge for them if you can, but others out there will do it for free, and all I am stating is that myself as a consumer with a choice, I will call someone who will give me a free quote, because to me, he cares enough about his business to provide a free service. Be that, it is only about 10-20 of his time, but that little thing means alot to me.

Like I said, I am a consumer also.

It seems the bigger the company, the less personable things are, the smaller guys go out of there way to please you. And I am not stating anyone here does/doesn't do this. This has been my experience in dealing with a host of people, from plumbers to roofers. I like the small guys over the conglomerates.


So in all, free estimates are for some, but not for all. But consumers of all things have a choice of what they want to do. And thats how it should be.

Dnk........

Free estimates? Trip charges are pretty standard for progressive residential service and repair companies. Plumbers and HVAC companies have been doing it for years. Electricians like myself have been left behind when it comes to updated business practices. (especially in Pa. )It's new here in Pa. but in other parts of the country it pretty normal.

The trip charge qualifies the customers. It divides those who are serious about doing the work from the price shoppers who only care about PRICE.

Zaney

[This message has been edited by Zaney (edited 08-01-2005).]

Zaney, Welcome to the board!!!!!

Interesting statements.

I guess I'm never prequalified then.

I look at it like, why pay someone an upfront fee, just to meet them? If I don't like them, I won't do business with them, and I'm not out any money.

And why would I pay someone an upfront fee, just to find out they are BSing me?


What would you say to someone like that?


Dnk.......

"I look at it like, why pay someone an upfront fee, just to meet them? If I don't like them, I won't do business with them, and I'm not out any money."

"And why would I pay someone an upfront fee, just to find out they are BSing me?"

____________________________________________


First of all it's not an up front fee, it is payment for the tech to respond to your request, the service company must pay the tech for his time to respond to your call, these are real expenses, do you ask you doctor to give you a free estimate? or do you let him treat you?

I would like to know how others deal with the price shopper, Besides having a trip charge.

I like the idea of Flat rate sheets for various service type work for residential work.
I would never take a Flat rate schedule to a commercial job that would get charged at time and materials.

It has been posted here before that if your a one man show, working from home,10 year old service vehicle,your costs are going to be 61.00/ hour

I would like to find out if this price includes vacation time,retirement investment, and weekends off, normal 4 hour of productive day.

My Goal is to be able to work 5 hours/day in the field and knowing that i can comfortably put away for retirement. this 65.00/hour company that i have is worth 0 dollars to sell.Nobody would invest and buy my company just to buy a job. At 65.00 per hour i am just making the low end of an hourly rate for wages.

There is so many unforeseen expenses also like when your insurance has a 1000.00 deductible and somebody has decided to help them selves to my tools. got to figure that cost into the overhead too.

I think your headed in the right direction, Doug. You can obtain a program called numbers cruncher that will guide you to determining your break even numbers, as well as what your hourly rate should be depending on the profit margin you want. Keep in mind, even if both of us were strictly service, our costs could be different. One of us could advertise more, purchase more assetts in one year, yada, yada, yada.

A lot depends on ones customer base. Regular repeat customers i.e. commercial/retail/industrial. Residential tends to be revolving where you seldom see the same customer for multiple repeat calls. With some of our customers we actually sign a contract for services that run 1 year. We charge 30% more for resi service, though we do very little in that area.

Dnk,

Yep you are right. You might not be a potential customer for me if you wouldnt pay for my time to see you. (dont take it the wrong way, its a good question)

When I did free estimates my conversion rate (shopper to buyers) was 60%. With a trip charge to qualify the customer my conversion rate now is 86%. It stops customers from wasting my time and from me wasting the customers time. (at least the customers who are looking for the cheapest price.)

Zaney

[This message has been edited by Zaney (edited 08-02-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Zaney (edited 08-02-2005).]

Another thought for you guys.

Would you pay a car dealer $50 to see what he has on his lot?

You you be willing to pay $10 every time you went into Target to see what is on sale?

Aren't you price shopping at these places?

I know these are retail examples, but when it comes to sales, aren't we all in retail in some kind of way.

Dnk.......

Yeah I do pay a membership fee to shop at a store,costs me 60.00 per year for a buiness membership.

Car dealerships and target don't send someone out to my home to show me what they have to offer and quote me prices. Auto repair shops don't come out to my home to look at my vehicle to give me a free estimate on the repair costs. I have to take my vehicle to them. Ask them to look at your car for free and then give you a free estimate and see what they say. They charge a fee just to look at your car and thats when you bring it to them.
I had a company come out to look at my big screen tv. They charged a $40 trip charge plus a $40 diagnostic fee. It cost me $80 to have them come out and look at it. Took him 5 min. to determine the problem. The estimate was free. It was the trip charge and diagnostic fee I was paying for. He had to order the part and come back another day to make the repair.
Why should we be any different.
I charge a service fee of $39.50 to come out. If I were charging for the estimate it would be alot more than $39.50
I had a customer call wanting me to come out and inspect the home that they were going to sell and give them a estimate to repair any problems that I found. I informed them that a fee would be charged for the inspection. After inspecting the home I presented them with the invoice, a list of problems and an estimate for the repairs. They felt that they shouldn't have to pay anything and it should all be part of the free estimate. I spent a little over an hour inspecting their home. I informed them that the estimate was free it was the inspection that they were being billed for.
If a customer would like to bring their home out to me I will gladly wave the $39.50 fee.

[This message has been edited by A-Line (edited 08-02-2005).]

Yep, I pay!

If they would come to my house, at my convenience, I'd be happy to pay! I love new cars but hate driving around looking to buy one. Sign me up today!

Zaney

LOL,
Abit off track but you see my point about the Price shoppers statement.

LOL, bring their house to me.


One other point for the Resi guys.


Did you know some of us commercial guys can spend days loking at prints, (retail stores, fast food restaurants ect.)then submit quotes and wouldn't even dare charge the GC for time spent doing it. Even better than this are the Really big EC who do schools and Federal buildings. They do all this for free and still have to pay hundreds of dollars in fees, just to submit their quotes.


Dnk......

Yes I know. Thats why I don't do that type of work.

Ditto,

Why have alot of EC company's started service and repair departments?

Because thats where the money is....

Zaney

The receivables are better in residential service, but commercial jobs are good for repeating full days.

Dave

I think the important part is not if Flat or T&M but the return on investment.Flatrate sure will allow you to charge 5 to 6 times more.T&M will allow you to charge more hours
Whatever works friends.In business since 28 years and have tried both by now
It's the RoI that makes the gravy.Nothing else.


[This message has been edited by teraohm1 (edited 09-12-2005).]

quote "I even bet someone could make a business out of giving estimates. If the roofers charged $150 for an estimate, then bid the job so high no-one would take you seriously. That would be about $150hr for no work involved, except taking a ladder off the truck. Pretty good money for nothing.

I would like to thank the author of this incredible idea. Why didn't I think of this myself? I am going to take out a gigantic yellow page and just drive around charging for overpriced estimates. No more permits, no more inspections, no more general contractors, no more deadbeats, no more .......

Do I detect a little sarcasm?

Dave

A. A client that calls to have the work done, trusts that I'll be fair & pays within 30 days.

B. A client that needs to know the price for their budget, but the job is mine if they can afford it. Or, someone that is referred by another client.

C. A client who calls around to "keep me honest".

D. People that don't really care about my membership in BBB, IAEI, Chamber of Commerce, Satisfaction Guarantee, etc. Low price is the winner & they go through the phone book starting at AAA or A-1. Aren't they surprised when the low-price winner doesn't return their calls on warranty work?


Loyalty works both ways. After doing good business with a client for a decade, I'll jump to fix their electrical problems. Better clients like it that way.

I don't use the cheapest accountant, mechanic, lawyer, etc. because I don't want the problems associated with cheap businesses. I can appreciate that they are charging what they need to... to stay in business so they'll still be around the next time I need them.

Dave

"quote"
Would you pay a car dealer $50 to see what he has on his lot?

You be willing to pay $10 every time you went into Target to see what is on sale?

Aren't you price shopping at these places?

I know these are retail examples, but when it comes to sales, aren't we all in retail in some kind of way.
---------------------------------------

The purpose of charging for estimates is to offset the cost of fuel/time driving to them, I doubt even those who charge for them break even on them. 5 free estimates a week will set you back $50 in gas and roughly 10 hours in time if you include time it takes to price stuff out etc.

Thats 10 hours that could have been spent on jobs at your hourly rate.

As for those bidding on million dollar schools etc.. I'm sure that the estimate time is figured in there somewhere.

Bottom line is, wether you charge for estimates up front or figure them in cost of the job, that time/expense has to be added somewhere or you will be out of business sooner or later.

I personally don't charge up front for an estimate, but every market is different and some places you can do it and have no problem. I hide it in my bids, it is a lot easier to hide in huge commercial job than in a $500 residential call


[This message has been edited by Rich R (edited 09-14-2005).]

Quote "Do I detect a little sarcasm? Dave'

Hey Dave it wasn't sarcasm, it was too much coffee. Once the buzz wore off I figured out all the down sides to it, including the fact that I have lived my entire 50 years without being larceneous so far. So I'm back to not charging for pricing jobs.

I don't charge for estimates either, but some people even ask for troubleshooting & a bid. If someone says something like "My lights aren't working, can you give me a free estimate?", I quote a Service Charge & Troubleshoot Charge. I'm not figuring out people's problems for free.

Lately I'm trying to weed out the D. clients from my previous post.

Dave

For what it is worth. E.C> in Mass.

Usually the general service call:

$125.00 service call, includes two men, a stocked truck and the first 15 minutes on site.

Emergency call:

2.0 hour minimum = $250.00. if it goes over the 2.0 hours than 1/2 day rate and if it goes over 1/2 day than full day rate.

I have been on calls to reset a tripped gfci. Five minutes, okay mr./mrs. customer is there anything else you would like done? I have taken out the trash or whatever else for the remaining ten minutes. I don't care what I do. I quoted you a price for 15 team minutes and that is what you'll get.

Jim