I have a new house job that total cost was $29,000. Contract was for 50% deposit before work started and 30% at rough and last 20% at final. Customer gives $5000 deposit and says I will give you the rest next week. 4 weeks go by no pay customer calls when you going to start when you going to start. I go down to meet with him and collect the remanding deposit. Customer says you didn't do anything so I am not paying. I have 5 days time on the job and $2000 in stock on job some of it installed. I also have endless phone calls about what should I do here how about these lights, should I change this, typical pain in the rear customer. Not a problem as I know him and factored in the extra time he would require in the form of a higher price. Anyways customer gets very mad about the job while we are talking and so am I, we are at the point of yelling at each other. Customer grabs me in a bear hug and pushes me up against a car. At this point I am stuned as he is an older guy but I break his grip loose and remind him I will hurt him bad if he doesn't back down so he does and I leave. I went by the local police dept to explain to see what I should do. They tell me I can let it go or file charges in court. I don't want to file anything but I am not doing work for this guy anymore. I am willing to cut my loses at this point as I don't feel I am out anything due to the 5 g deposit. How do I end my deal with this guy?

Joey,

You make a very good case for requiring a big deposit up front. Can't imagin collecting from him after it's done.

I have never seen a customer try to get physical over a dispute.

I would send him a letter signature required like this.

Your Co. will not be providing any more work for him for the below reasons:

1. He defaulted on the agreement by failing to provide the agreed amount weeks past when the the money was to be paid.

2. Your Co. made many efforts to collect the $$$ with no payment recieved.

3. On this date and time the SOB in anger over... physicly attacked Joey of our Co.. This incident was reported on (date & time) to the .... police dept..

Enclosed are the final totals for amounts due for the project at ....... The remaining ballance due comes to $650. Please pay the balance promptly. Otherwise assalt charges will be filed in cort, a lien will be filed on the property, and the account will be turned over to our collection agency.

Then on page 2 give hime a price breakdown where he still owes you a little $$$. Not enough where it will be worth the trouble of another attorny.

Something like:
-Did this work
-Met HO these times
-Job material return charges
-Rescheduling Fees

The idea being if you say he still owes $$ he will probibly just disipear. You want to hold something above his head otherwise he'll be demanding a refund. Don't persue anything just forget about it. If he wants to fight it then you might reach an agreement of both walking away. It just give you something to negociate with. I don't know what the chances are but he might realize he screw up and send a check to get rid of you.

Note: Just an idea. Customer relations are not my specialty. If your worried about things spend a little for an attorny to chear you up.

Tom




[This message has been edited by Active 1 (edited 01-12-2005).]

Tom, Thanks for the info. It sounds like thats how it should be handled.

Tom gave you excellent advice. In the future to make things a little easier, I would include boiler plate fine print on the back of your contract spelling out exactly what will happen if the customer defaults or cancels. This way there are no misunderstandings and if it goes to court you can defend your damages and charges. I would get very specific and cover all circumstances. Mike Holt has a sample contract that even includes permission to enter the premises legally for the purpose of repossessing material and tools. "It is understood that Your Company Name shall have the authorization to enter upon owner/contractor property for the purpose of repossessing material and equipment whether or not installed without liability to owner/contractor for trespass or any other reason.

This is kind of controversial because in most states I believe you need a court order to reposses. Even so, by agreeing to this the customer paves the way for this to happen if necessary. I would run all of what you propose to write past your attorney anyway.

Above where the customer signs you put in bold type "By signing this contract customer affirms that they have read and agree to the terms and conditions on both sides of this contract".

Unfortunately it seems like more and more customers think like this and are out to screw you. The days of a handshake are gone and you have to do everything in writing from the get go to protect yourself.

-Hal

Forget about going back to the job for materials, but your supplier may help with a lein on the property. I'd say the guy owes you $1,000 or more and a strongly worded collection letter is in order. I'd also consider including in the letter that if anyone else completes your contract he will still owe you for the completion of the contract. In other words, his project is on hold until he settles with you, and he is the problem. If he had come up with the advance the project would have progressed smoothly. Because of the battery (you really should charged him) you can't be near him without a police officer. Document everything and when you invoice, include every minute of your time, including meetings, phone, suppliers,time with police, etc. Consider seeing a lawyer & add those fees in as collection fees. A letter from your lawyer will let him know you're not backing down & he won't have a shot in **** of getting anything from you. A lawyer may be able to do a lein for a few hundred dollars, and give you some good advice also.

Dave

Forget about going back to the job for materials

I wouldn't either especially in this case. He bought them as far as I'm concerned.

My point with the contract is one that is specific and strongly worded will put the customer on notice from the very beginning that you won't tolerate any crap from them. Honest customers won't have a problem but it will tend to scare ones like this off once they realize that you aren't an easy mark.

-Hal

See your lawyer before you send him anything in writing.

What about your permit ? Don't release it and that will tie up the job. No one elese can work on your permit and nobody can pull another one for that job, just be sure to notify the inspector

Good advice,
Quote:
"See your lawyer before you send him anything in writing."
Your best dollar spent, getting legal advice,considering the cost of the job, and it gives a third part, a chance to look at the situation.

And keep your building department updated.
With a contract, and a permit, you have two things going for you.

I am meeting with the lawyer on monday. Hope it turns out like I want it to.
As far as the permit is concerned, should I keep it active to hold the job up or close it down?

I wouldn't close it untill all is resolved. Why do them any favors?

New twist to the story. Customer calls me today, yes on a sunday.
Customer has 2 snow mobiles on site and since I am, or was a friend of his said hey I have my sleds in the garage and the keys are in them. I am not big into using other peoples vehicles, tools or anything for that matter but is was snowing out and we finished up early so why not. My helper never been on one before. We take a short ride 1/2 hr to an hr can't remember put them back and head out. He is now saying I broke one of them and it's going to cost 1500 to fix it. While I did ride it I no way did any damage to them. These things have been on site for the 2 years while the job has been going on and every tom dick and harry has driven them. Now if I was to do any damage I would have replaced it and told him about it up front. Why not right, even if they are offered to you, you break it you should pay. He tells me pay up or he will call the board of electricians and file with the police. I tell him he should do just that and also don't call me anymore talk directly to my atterny and hung up. I am more or less venting here as I can't see where all this is coming from but now know why the company who origionaly framed the house has a lien on it and taking this guy to court. Since he was a friend I believed him when he said the framer failed to do the job correctly and he had to hire someone to fix his mistakes. Makes me feel like a sucker as I felt sorry for the guy.

Just the act of a desperate man AND a very good reason why you should have Caller ID and not pick up his calls. BTW, that carpenter will be good to work jointly with against this deadbeat.

Dave

I am going to try to find him today. See what he has to say.

Ummm is this the same customer you started this thread about?

-Hal

Sorry to hear about your situation. I must say I think your crazy to have any interactions with this person short of the legal system. You did not say what happened in the time between seeing your attorny and using his snowmobile.

By using his sleds after all this you really set your self up. Your attory allready knows half your story. You might as well talk to him about the sleds. You should have told him to talk only to your attorny instead of taking him up on the sled offer.

You did not say what type of dammage ther was. Unless the sled was crashed into something I don't think polece would care. What is he going to call the electricians board for, wrecking his sled? I think that would not pertain to the board.

What he is saying is he wants to negosiate. If you batteled it court I would think it would be 2 seperate cases.

Tom

Definitely time for talking to an attorney..
His accusations are simply an attempt at "street justice" and intimidation. Apart from your battery complaint (which probably will fail...your word vs his), his new actions may be enough to open an extortion inquity.
Likewise, an attorney is in the best place to co-ordinate with the other contractors; this bum likely has played the same game with them.
His actions may also allow you to ask for triple damages, and a restraining order may be called for.
You should not have any unwitnessed discussions with him. He's sure to have a script, with the aim of getting you to say things in HIS interest. The best witness qould be someone not inherently biased, or a party to the dispute.

The snowmobiles were used before any of this happened, like I said we were friends so to speak. It was my demand for the rest of the down payment that sparked the arguements over this crap. I last left it with him as he should do what he feels is neccisary and to not call me and speak with my lawyer.
As far as what happened with my lawyer, he drafts up a letter and sends it off to him and waits to hear from him or an atterney he hired. I told him about everything, the snowmobile the assault, the deposit phone calls you name it. I know my lawyer will handle this in the best way possible i am mostly venting here and putting this story up for all to see as a reminder that customers can be very tough to deal with and contracts can save you.

Joey,
I could not help but reply to the messages you have posted. I am sorry to hear that your contracting business is in this mess.

First, do not get confrontational with a customer over any amount of money.

Second, take two and think it through!

The customer is who pays the bills. You are working for him.

It sounds as if you two had a misunderstanding and cannot resolve any issues that are causing the problem.

Do not return to the property unless the customer knows that you are coming, that's asking for trouble.

You did the right thing if you got it all in writing and got a deposit.

Most judges will not honor a contract that favors the party that wrote it. Contracts are broken every day. Lawyers make a lot of bucks over broken contracts/agreements.
I am no lawyer and it doesn’t sound like you are either.

Any lawyer is going to cost you a few dollars and a lot of time.

The best solution is to try to work it out with the customer to get the job done and move on. You may have to eat some crow and you may have to throw in a free something or other to smooze the deal, but a savvy player will work the customer.

Have you ever been duck hunting? When the ducks are flying away you get out the old "come back call" and they may turn and come back to you close enough for a shot...this is called "working the duck". Customers are exactly the same way, sometimes you have to "WORK" them.

You need to stop and think about what is best for YOUR BUSINESS keep emotion out of it.

If a customer attacks you, you have every right to defend yourself and to take some legal action but do not expect to patch things up with the customer too easily after the law gets involved.

Another thing is that most city or governmental offices do not like to get involved in he said she said conflicts or broken agreements etc. If a home owner goes to the planning and zoning commission and says he fired you they will issue another permit to the next cat that can get one, in most places.

Even if another outfit finishes the job, you would not collect on your contract. The agreement was broken but you would never collect the remaining contract amount without spending at least that much in a trial.

Chances are your lawyer would file a lien and then send a few threatening letters etc. Most customers who care about their credit or are planning to buy anything will not want an outstanding lien on their report. A lien has to be filed properly to be valid. The customer may hire an attorney. These guys already know each other so they chat about the case at the country club and your lawyer comes back with a number, this number is never enough so you send him back to get a bigger number, the customer finally cracks and you may get about half of what you wanted and the lawyer gets a nice cut too.

In the end you have not gained anything but some gray hair and some new friend’s downtown...and lost a lot of time!

It's hard to be humble but the old saying "The customer is always right" is true. That doesn’t mean he knows best it means that if you want to get paid...”The customer is always right"!

I would send him a professional letter asking to try and resolve your differences. Cut him a break on the job and he will most likely respond. Kiss up to him if you have to...it won’t hurt anything. You want to get paid don’t you? Or would you rather lose that job?

If you can’t get anything happening, take the $5K and hope that he doesn’t try and sue you. Even if he files a bogus suit it can cost you!

I do not know what would possess you to accept an offer to borrow anything from this person after what you described happened!

I would stay away from that dude! He sounds like a scrappy fellow!

Do not mix biz with pleasure! It will come back to haunt you!

Good luck!

Greg




[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 02-01-2005).]

"I do not know what would possess you to accept an offer to borrow anything from this
person after what you described happened!"

This was well before anything happend with this guy. The first blow was looking for the remander of the deposit, then all this happens, the attack, the snow mobile issue, the BS. I have stock and a gang box on site and I have no intentions of going back to the job.

Joey,
My first reflection is :This is one reason there are licenses. What this **** is doing is what people here do when they've set-up an unlicensed guy to take a fall. If you don't have a license, you're out of luck.

Second, the most important rule in business is KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER. Here we have one prominent firm that specialises in sticking it to the new guys....and all he can get are the new guys, 'cause the veterans won't deal with him. Period. No matter how hard times are, there are some folks who you don't want to deal with.

Joey I know a guy, who knows a guy. You know what I mean.