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Posted By: George Little Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/08/05 09:31 PM
Do you feel that the uses permitted is all inclusive or the uses not permited is all inclusive? For example 334.10 does not say NM cable is allowed in construction Types I and II and 334.12,Use not permited, does not show it as prohibited.
Posted By: shortcircuit Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/08/05 10:47 PM
George Little,
Are you in the 2002 NEC?

The 2005 NEC seems to have cleared up this confusion with the addition of a new 334.12(A)(1)

shortcircuit
Posted By: George Little Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/09/05 12:16 AM
Yes we are on the '02 and I agree the '05 is different. But the real crux of the problem is uses permitted and not permitted being not all inclusive.
Posted By: e57 Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/09/05 12:39 AM
Whats different in the '05?

Did they realize they messed up the wording, or lack there-of in the '02?
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/09/05 01:00 AM
In the 2005 you will find this FPN in all of the cable wiring methods xxx.10 sections, which should answer your question:

Quote
FPN: The “Uses Permitted” is not an all-inclusive list.
Posted By: George Little Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/09/05 01:32 AM
Ryan- It doesn't say it in article 334, 340 or 336, The one I'm ionterested in is 334 and it should.
Posted By: Ryan_J Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/09/05 01:41 AM
Far out, I didn't even look, my apologies. [Linked Image]

I would be very comfortable as an AHJ saying that it is not all inclusive though.
Posted By: e57 Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/09/05 04:11 AM
We have debated this one several times lately, but don't think we got anywhere.

George brings up a valid point. It does not say 'permited' or 'not permited'.

So is it permited, or not?

George, have you, or do you plan to wire a high-rise in NM?
Posted By: George Little Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/09/05 11:53 AM
I am an inspector and this issue has come up under the '02 code that would presumably allow NM cable in a multifamily dwelling (5 story) of Type I construction.
Posted By: e57 Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/10/05 12:56 AM
Well George, I guess it is up to you then....

Although, as I said before, I see Romex as a "combustable", and has no place in Type 1, which are supposed to be "Non-combustable" in type of construction.

And that this code was written in a purposefully vague wording designed to be manipulated.

I see your point though... Doesn't allow, or dis-allow....
334.10 has notes: Not part of the NEC! Do you enforce codes outside of it?
Quote
FPN No. 1:Building constructions are defined in NFPA 220-1999, Standard on Types of Building Construction, or the applicable building code, or both.
FPN No. 2:See Annex E for determination of building types [NFPA 220, Table 3-1].

Might be up to your Building, or Fire Inspector to throw down the guantlet from the codes they enforce.... Fire-stopping isn't really in the NEC, do you enforce that, or do they?
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Uses permitted/not permitted - 06/10/05 01:06 AM
Things have to be taken in context. The NECis written in the context of being written by Americans, for Americans, and applied in the American legal system.

One shouldn't have to worry about whether they have "permission" in a free country as they pursue life, liberty, and happiness.

If it's not specifically banned, it's legal.
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