Does a Hot Tub have to be Listed as a Package Unit?
LK, 680.44 recognizes field assembled Hot Tubs which would not be listed by any testing organization.
But, 90.4 gives the AHJ power to approve or disapprove of equipment and materials used.
shortcircuit
680.44 should not be used, on the package unit, the unit was not field assy, it was built in a factory, not the field, so that brings us to the inspector, so why should he take on the liability for passing something, that was wired by factory workers, thet may or, may not be qualified to wire the package,
it looks like listed spas, is the only answer, unless the EC wants to take on the liability of the unit wiring, and i don't think his insurance underwriter would be very pleased if he did.
Because the inspector is not called to inspect the tub itself. He is called to inspect the feed to the tub.
I can't see how this is even an issue in the field.
I have seen jobs where parking lot light installations, have failed because the pole lights were not listed, commercial kitchen equipment jobs failed, because the equipment was not listed.
Les:
Petey makes a point......I just had a thought...how about the "Inplant Inspector"??
DCA has a classification of "Inplant Inspector"; now I have something else to inquire about.
OK, now have you seen a UL label on a whirlpool? (Hydromassage Tub) Also, how about a pool? Inground or above ground? The filter/pump assembly is labeled, the heater is labeled, the pipes a NSF labeled, but...????
BTW, where the parking lot lights "imports"?
John
John,
Glad to hear from someone in the trenches, yes, I always thought the way Petey does, until i ran into this problem, and yes from my point of view i agree with him, i did my job, however is the inspector going to look for a listed package, remember the package is not like a pool, which is field inspected, because listed equipment was wired in the field, whereas the spa is pre wired, not wired in the field.
For the light poles, how did you guess, yes import.
On the In Plant inspector, years back we built everything from control panels, to complete packaging lines, all without listing or inspection.
So at least i know, when i do non listed spa installs in Double Rodville, they will pass.
Thanks for the reply, shure wanted to hear from the other side.
Les
I kicked this over to the IAEI guys and they had an interesting view. Basically if this is not listed by a NRTL it ain't listed.
http://www.iaeifl.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000148
gfretwell,
Great job, this is what i thought, we have a large number of spa manufactures out there selling non listed equipment.
And it appears that some inspectors are only now starting to reject these units.
Thank you,
<opinion alert>
IMHO
One of the problems with inspectors actually approving a design in the field is their workload. Around here they may be doing 30 or more a day so they don't really have time for an in depth inspection that they are willing to sign their name to.
It is a lot easier for the CBO to simply say "no listing, no go" and err on the safe side.
You guys got me thinking, so I looked at my Hot Tub and its UL listed. Made by Saratoga Spas.
Our state statutes require (with exceptions) all electrical componets to be NRTL listed. (I'm not saying I agree with it though)
ยง 66‑25. Acceptable listings as to safety of goods.
All electrical materials, devices, appliances, and equipment shall be evaluated for safety and suitability for intended use. This evaluation shall be conducted in accordance with nationally recognized standards and shall be conducted by a qualified testing laboratory. The Commissioner of Insurance, through the Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance, shall implement the procedures necessary to approve suitable national standards and to approve suitable qualified testing laboratories. The Commissioner may assign his authority to implement the procedures for specific materials, devices, appliances, or equipment to other agencies or bodies when they would be uniquely qualified to implement those procedures.
In the event that the Commissioner determines that electrical materials, devices, appliances, or equipment in question cannot be adequately evaluated through the use of approved national standards or by approved qualified testing laboratories, the Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance shall specify any alternative evaluations which safety requires.
The Engineering Division of the Department of Insurance shall keep in file, where practical, copies of all approved national standards and resumes of approved qualified testing laboratories. (1933, c. 555, s. 3; 1989, c. 681, s. 1.)
Our City even had a mobile MRI that had been used in many states from the east coast to the west, get a NRTL listing as an assembly before it could be used.
Roger
[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 06-03-2005).]
I found it interesting that "Hot Springs", a heavily promoted brand, is not NRTL evaluated. They use Exponant labs, not on the list.
As I understand the position of some ---
If an electrictian on site assembles the hot tub electrical components from approved subassemblies, the hot tub gets inspected per local code.
If the same components are assembled by the hot tub manufacturer, the hot tub gets a red tag (unless agency approved).
I don't see a difference between the two methods of work. I expect those who do are asking for a law suit they cannot win.
George,
What is different, between the two methods of work, is the on site wiring is done by a lic. electrician, and the delivered package unit is wired by spa employees, that may or may not be qualified, and may or may not have qualified supervision, a big difference.