Sorry to bring this subject up again, but I searched the some of the archives, and didn't see a definite answer about the master bedroom lights having to be on the bedroom AFCI circuit. I may have missed it though. In my opinion it would be best, but is it required? I don't seem to see it "spelled out" in the code. It only says bedroom outlets.... Thanks Steve... Also how about the master bedroom closet light? I would think so. Steve

[This message has been edited by sparkync (edited 05-30-2005).]

[This message has been edited by sparkync (edited 05-30-2005).]

The consensus seems to be that a ceiling box is an outlet as defined in the code. So is a receptacle, smoke detector etc. because they are "a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment"-NEC 2002 Art. 100-Outlets. Thus a box containing just a switch would not be an outlet because it is only for control, not utilization.

Greg, I'm actually talking about the switch not necessarily being in the bedroom, but the switch in the bathroom controlling the lights. I know technically, by "wording" that the bathroom is not the bedroom, but looks to me like they would still be considered one. If an arch originates in the bathroom lighting next to the bedroom, would not the same hazard be present when the homeowner is asleep, being it is so close to the bedroom? I know according to the wording that it wouldn't have to be, but it don't make a lot of sense to me. Thanks again.. Steve..

There's no reason you can't go beyond the minimum of the code if you wish. If the light that is being controlled is in the bedroom then that circuit must be AFCI protected. The decision is based on where the "outlet" is, not the switch that controls it. Frankly I think that the whole AFCI thing is a solution looking for a problem anyway.

Greg, I agree.. Somethings just don't make right good sense..Steve

It also depends on which NEC version you're under. The '99 says bedroom receptacles only, while the '02 calls for all utilization points in the bedroom, even smokes, but does not appear to include closets.

From the 1999 NEC:

210-12. Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(a) Definition. An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.

(b) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter(s). This requirement shall become effective January 1, 2002.


From the 2002 NEC:

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(A) Definition. An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.

(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.

[This message has been edited by Larry Fine (edited 05-30-2005).]

Lest we open old arguments.....a switch is not an outlet- so a switch in the bedroom controlling a light in the bathroom need not be afci protected. A switch outside the bedroom that controlled the bedrom would require such protection.

why is a switch not an outlet?

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. (2002)

Joe,
A switch is not an outlet, because the ultilization equipment is not installed at the switch.
Don

In my opinion we have to accept Don's interpretation of outlet.

If we did say that a switch is an outlet than almost everything we install becomes an outlet.

I thought most everything was an outlet, outlet is an opening. Fixture, smoke detector, receptacle .....

Most everything except a switch?

[This message has been edited by JoeMed (edited 06-05-2005).]

[This message has been edited by JoeMed (edited 06-05-2005).]

Joe


I believe that is true in the eyes of an estimator who bids per opening.

As outlet relates to the NEC I will stick with Don's explanation.

If we call a switch an outlet a panel would be called an outlet.

I do not think even estimators consider a panel and outlet or opening.

what is not and opening, is the fixture in the bathroom or bedroom an opening?
I see his view about the switch and the utilization equipment not at this same location but then what else is not an opening. Put the panel a side this topic was in reference to "outlets" (the switch) that needs to AFCI protected in the bedroom.

[This message has been edited by JoeMed (edited 06-05-2005).]

I suppose we might define "outlet" as a hole electricity comes out of......a switch goes in a hole that electricity might pass through, but doesn't come out of.
A switch doesn't really "use" electricity- it just controlls it. Same for panels, starters, photocells, motion sensors, and many timers.
How do we tell is something "uses" electricity? Lok at how we wire it. If it is wired in series, it doesn't use electricity. If it is in parallel- as receptacles are- then it's probably an outlet. (Please, motor control guys, let this slide!)

Let's keep it simple- things are complicated enough already!

If the "switch" controls outlets in the bedroom, it is going to get AFCI protected anyway. If the "switch" is in the bedroom, but controls an outlet in the closet or bathroom, it is not required to be AFCI protected