There seems to be a lot of controversy about installing a receptacle (120v 20a) above a suspended ceiling and plugging in equipment such as a condensate pump or other equipment. I would like to hear some different opinions and code references.

Well, 400.8(5)seems to restrict the use of flexible cord from above a dropped or suspended ceiling...

But, the restrictions of 400.8 only apply to installations not allowed by 400.7

So, wouldn't 400.7(6) allow equipment such as a condensate pump with a manufacturer installed flexible cord and attachment plug be allowed to be pluged into a receptacle outlet as described in 400.7(B)

Nothing would restrict the installation of a receptacle outlet above a dropped ceiling and if the flexible cord were not installed as a permanent wiring method than IMO, it would be a code compliant installation.

shortcircuit

Personally, I think the code has gone farther than necessary, and that it should be revised to allow for some use of flexible cord above dropped ceilings.

Flexible cord is required to be visible for its entire length outside the luminaire (fixture)

See 410.30(C)(1)(1)(2)(a)

However for some strange reason you can conciel that very same cord behind your dishwasher.

I agree with shortcircuit.

Check the NEC handbook. Section 400.7 & 400.8 In their comment {not enforcable as Code} it states: "may not be used as a substitute for fixed wiring ...or where concealed behind... ceilings (including structural, suspended or dropped-type ceilings)."
The Handbook is intended to explain and establish consistency in understanding the Code.
In other words a ceiling is a ceiling even if it has accessable panels. If you wouldn't allow it above a fixed ceiling then don't allow it above a suspended ceiling.
Alan- an Inspector

Alan, could you define "fixed wiring"?

I have seen alot of sjo and so cords that originate in 1900 boxes above drop cielings and "drop" out of the cielings to work stations below.

Fixed wiring to me sounds like it has to have a removable plug and not wire nutted in the box. And the cord I see is for movable work stations?

This sounds non-allowable then.
What's your take?

Dnkldorf, that is exactly the situation I had in mind when I commented that the code needs to be changed. I fail to see how a foot or so of cord can make a significant addition to the fire load above the ceiling, or how those crumbly tiles can damage the cords.

I think that, on this issue, the code has passed "safe minimum" and attempted to mandate "perfect ideal."

And, lest anyone misunderstand my context, I say that the code precludes flex cord above the ceiling- and I think the code ought to be changed to allow some!

I will contain my first comments to what IMO the code requires.

IMO it is clear the NEC does not allow one inch of cord above a suspended ceiling.

I have been convinced of this by other members here like Joe T and Don.

Also starting with the 2002 code the inspectors in my area will not allow cord connected condensate pumps above the ceiling.

Two choices, pump on the wall below the ceiling or tell the HVAC contractor to supply pumps that can be hardwired.

Another item we run into is motorized video projector mounts.

These retract the video projectors above the suspended ceilings. Previously we where putting plugs above the ceiling for these, now the inspectors require the plug to be installed on the underside of the ceiling and the cords must stay below the ceiling as well. Very ugly and the customers hate it.

Now some personal opinion, I think it is time for the manufactures to catch up with the NEC on this issue. The equipment should be provide with an option for 'hard' wiring if the equipment is designed or intended for ceiling use.

I do not believe it is wise to have cords above ceilings, I have found old cords above ceilings and when flexed the insulation drops off.

There is also the issue of the ceiling often being used for 'other environmental air' and rubber cord is not suitable for use in that space.

I think we should ask ourselves is there a hardship created by the 'no cord' rule that exceeds the problems of complying with it?

What possible reason is there to really need a cord above the ceiling?

Hard wire the equipment!

JMO, Bob

Any place where you would want to use portable cord above a ceiling, a fixed wiring method, cable, or conduit could be used. For locations needing flexibility with drop cords, such as to work stations either use power poles or mount the boxes the cords come from below the ceiling.
The problem with cord above the ceiling isn't just fire loading but, that the cords are left for years and deteriorate.
There was a Code proposal years ago to allow cord connected lighting above the ceiling. When the office layout changed the maintenance man could redo the lighting instead of calling an electrician. Do you like having a job or do you want the janitor doing your work ?
Still a violation where I'm at.
Alan--

Generally in agreement with you, Alan. I also had some trouble imagining an application where you were kind of stuck using SO cable....then a major supermerket called.

Their problem? They have assorted coolers and hot tables that they use for display in the store's high traffic areas (like at the front door). They also, as part of their marketing, re-do these displays often, changing the layout every week or two. Come in today, and you have to jog left; next week, you might have to jog right instead!
Naturally, they neither want to have miles of cable drooping from the ceiling, nor do they want multiple holes or receptacles in the ceiling tiles. Their competitor has a newer store, with open framing, and is able to festoon his wire. This customer has trouble understanding why he can't do the same thing above the grid....and I'm inclined to agree with him. I does seem unreasonable to call the electrician to move the cord from box to box every week!

Since you brought up cords , Almost every if not every hydromassage tub comes with a plug and cord, They are pluged in then run thru the floor to a outlet below or hidden behind a acess panel. Seems the code does not deal with that??

Yeah Ernie, and how about all the dishwashers and compactors out there that are cord connected???

In fact my own dishwasher is cord connected but don't tell on me

Yoopersup,
What about 400.(2)?
Don

Don
I know that! But there,There or behind acess panels show me the section that shows behind panels is OK. thats my point there not being hooked up per code But then again how can you hook them up legally???As far as dishwashers, Kitchen Waste Disposers and Trash Compactors see 422.16 2002 Code there dealth with there,

[This message has been edited by Yoopersup (edited 04-20-2005).]

O.K. Everyone. Let's all read from the same Code book. Section 400.8 (2) and 400.8 (5).

In subsection (2) "Where run through holes in walls...ceilings...floors."
No cords through the floor !

In sub section (5) "Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings."
No cords above the lay-in ceiling

Access panels on hydro massage tubs are NOT walls, floors or ceilings.

Is this horse dead yet ?
Alan -an inspector.

Alan
Neither are Doors under the sink for Kitchen waste disposers BUT the Code Mentioned them in 422.16b . My point is the code does not want a CORD CONCELLED unless its aprroved like in 422 what your saying then is just put in a acesss panel and you can put a cord in a wall?? Or put a acess panel in a ceiling then a cord can be behind that also???

[This message has been edited by Yoopersup (edited 04-21-2005).]

Returning from my trip this week to Holland and Belgium. I have many pictures of flexible cord wiring used for permanent instalations.

You will be surprised!

Here's one showing the use of sleeved flexible cords that supplied lighting near the canal in Amsterdam.

I also saw many cords in the spaces above the ceilings in the airport in Amsterdam and Paris.