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Posted By: George Little Outdoor receptacle - 01/25/05 05:16 AM
I've been noticing that the Generac generators (sold at Home Depot and others) have a 120v. 15a. duplex receptacle on the end of the outdoor enclousure that is GFCI protected and has a cover on the receptacle that is weatherproof only when the attachment plug cap is unplugged. Based on the '02 NEC this is a code violation. 406.8(B)(1)
This is a case of a UL Listed piece of equipment violating the Code. How would you correct this violation if I wrote it quoting the above mentioned reference?
Posted By: nesparky Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/25/05 05:21 AM
The generator assembly comes from the manufacturer that way. If it is not modified then the NEC does not apply to it. As long as the equipment is suitable for it's intended use and complies with the UL standard is was manufacturerd under, you can only accept or reject the entire unit.
Posted By: George Little Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/25/05 09:44 PM
Quote
If it is not modified then the NEC does not apply to it.
I'm not sure you are correct. The NEC applies to all installations I inspect. The issue is here that the manufacturer is building a piece of equipment that is not code compliant and UL is listing it. What would be wrong with changeing the cover on the duplex receptacle?
Posted By: safetygem Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/25/05 09:48 PM
George,
I would say that the manufacturer intended that all equipment used with the generator be "attended." Typically that would be the case for most applications.

If, however, this type of generator were used to power "unattended" equipment in an outdoor location, then IMO your interpretation of the NEC would be correct.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/25/05 10:07 PM
No disrespect here George, But I am really glad you never inspected any of my jobs. [Linked Image]

With your logic I wonder why your not taking stoves, dryers, A.C. equipment etc etc and checking wire size for NEC compliance.

I also wonder how you consider a portable generator as part of an "installation".
Posted By: George Little Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/25/05 10:44 PM
I don't inspect cord connected appliances for code compliance but I do think that a permanent installation of a generator should comply with the code. As to the attended or unatended issue the code says both need an "in-use" cover for outdoor receptacles.406.8(B)(1) I will be addressing this issue with UL and Generac so stay tuned.
Posted By: Speedy Petey Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/26/05 03:16 AM
Sorry but I am with Kent on this one.

If the appliance is UL listed you have no say as to it's legality. As a unit it is perfectly legal, it's intended use is dry/damp locations. If someone mis-uses it it is their problem. If you really wanted you could apply for a job with OSHA and write up people for using their gensets in the rain.

Also, since when is this type of generator "installed". A Gen-Tran panel is a different story.

Also, 406.8(B)(1) states "...receptalces installed outdoors in a wet location...". The receptacles is not "installed" outdoors. It is installed on a portable device.

At the same time you can say just using the generator in a wet location is a code violation since you are not supposed to subject a generator to rain or direct weather. Since this is the case the receptacle on the generator is considered a damp location, not wet.


George, you are actually going to bring this up with UL and Genreac?
Posted By: George Little Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/26/05 03:43 AM
Well guys, I sticking to my story on this one. Maybe you would agree with me if I discribed it a little more. It's a 13kw generator installed like you would an air conditioner condenser. It is anchored to a cement slab and the unit definitely is not a portable. There are no wheels on it and unless you are super human you are not moving it by yourself. The fuel supply is natural gas supplied by the gas utility. It is designed to be used outdoors and is hard wired to a transfer switch panel located in the basement of the home. The duplex receptacle is mounted on the end of the case and has a weatherproof cover that says "Weatherproof only when cord cap is removed" So this unit is designed for outdoor alpplications. The receptacle is only live when the generator is running. Unit measures about 48"x30"x24" (sorry no metrics)
And yes, I'm contacting UL. If I'm wrong I'll say so. I'm a big boy.
Posted By: HLCbuild Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/27/05 01:20 AM
George,
From what you have described, I'd agree with you that the generator is definately fastened in place. It seems the hard-wired transfer switch is also a permanent installation. But I'd have to believe the receptacle is only going to be used while attended. If it is only hot when the generator is running, it seems that a permanently unattended cord plugged into it would serve no purpose. If I were going to plug something in and leave it unattended for any lenght of time, I'd want it hot all the time. It really seems this receptacle is for unattended use. We are still fumbling around in the '99 code here in VA so it would be legal here.
Posted By: PCBelarge Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/27/05 02:27 AM
Take heed George, I agree with you [Linked Image].
This piece of equipment from your discription is a permanent installation, and is outdoors. It is not a portable piece of equipment as Kent seems to think - easy does it Kent [Linked Image]
There is a strong possibility that this equipment was manufactured prior to this code requirement, and that is why it has been designed that way.

Pierre
Posted By: George Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/27/05 05:43 PM
George Little ---

The recept is not regulated by the NEC until it is installed. So do not complain to the UL about violations of the NEC.

It could be installed under proper cover. In which case all is fine.

If the generator and attached recept is not installed under proper cover, then you have the right to reject the equipment. Perhaps suggesting a cover would be a polite way of assisting the installer.
Posted By: iwire Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/27/05 11:49 PM
George I do not believe the NEC applies to this factory installed receptacle.

IMO 90.7 makes this clear, here is the second paragraph.

Quote
It is the intent of this Code that factory-installed internal wiring or the construction of equipment need not be inspected at the time of installation of the equipment, except to detect alterations or damage, if the equipment has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory that is recognized as having the facilities described in the preceding paragraph and that requires suitability for installation in accordance with this Code.

I agree with Kent that this would be no different than an inspector refusing a stove for a 310.16 violation.

How about a dishwasher? All the wiring is out in the open using the floor, wall and cabinet sides as an electrical enclosure.

I think it would be a great idea if UL did require a good quality in use cover on these unit. [Linked Image]

I do not believe it is within the local inspectors jurisdiction to require it.

JMO, Bob
Posted By: George Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/29/05 12:23 AM
iwire ---

I believe what you are saying is:

If a manufacturer produces a non-weatherproof recept with pigtails on it, you must allow it to be used where a weatherproof recepticle is required.

The generator, is the pigtail, of the non-weatherproof recept in the current question.
Posted By: George Little Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/29/05 02:29 AM
Well -Gentlemen and ladies if any, I have taken the first step in the UL process of filing a Field Report and it looks like I have been vindicated but only time will tell. Any one interested in seeing a picture of the issue in question just drop me an e-mail with the word "Generator" in the Subject line.
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/29/05 01:36 PM
In Massachusetts 90.4 is ammended to say "The authority having jurisdiction shall accept listed and labeled equipment or materials where used or installed in accordance with instructions included with the listing and labeling."
So I would say in MA you would have no authority to have this cover changed.
Posted By: iwire Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/29/05 04:55 PM
George

Quote
iwire ---
I believe what you are saying is:

If a manufacturer produces a non-weatherproof recept with pigtails on it, you must allow it to be used where a weatherproof receptacle is required.

The generator, is the pigtail, of the non-weatherproof recept in the current question.

I disagree, the generator is UL listed as entire assembly like an appliance.


A "non-weatherproof recept with pigtails on it" would only be listed as a small part of a whole, a component of a larger assembly.

The listing for the receptacle you describe would require it to be an enclosure.

IMO it is not the same.

Bob
Posted By: mike d Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/29/05 09:00 PM
do you know what the intended use of the receptacle is? look at 406.8 (B) (2) (b),
does not require in use covers. maybe the
generator specs show the intended use of that receptacle. code ref. is 2002 NEC
Posted By: russ m Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/29/05 10:34 PM
I know scott mentioned that in MA they have amended the NEC to say listed products must be accepted.
(I know some hate the idea of the NEC being amended)
That is not the case every where. Just because a testing lab list a product, it does not mean the product has to be approved by the AHJ.
Posted By: George Little Re: Outdoor receptacle - 01/30/05 12:30 AM
Russ- I could not agree with you more. The fact that a product has a Listing by UL or any other other testing lab does not make it safe or code compliant. Some of the worst signs I have inspected have a UL sticker on them. If you've ever attended an IAEI Section meeting and were able to attend an inspector/UL meeting you'd know how much UL relies on the feed back from contractor and inspectors. The item in this thread is a classic example of something UL needs feedback on.
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