Shower Light - ECN Electrical Forums

Hi,
I have a CLIENT who is building a new home and she has a shower stall that she wants to place a light in. The switch for this light would be located at the basin adjacent to the shower. Is this too close or would it be allowed since it is around a corner?

The same room aslo has a whirlpool tub. The room has his and hers sinks on either side with a light bar at each and a pendant mounted light in the center of the room. The toilet is in its own little room within this room and it has a vent/light combo.

I do not see a problem with the pendant mounted light fixture in the center of the room but the light in the shower stall has to be approved for that location does it not?

Thanks for any replies.

-regards

Mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 11-22-2004).]

There is no restriction on how close a light switch or a plug can be to a shower stall or a whirlpool tub.

410.4d restricts pendant fixtures from within 3ft horizontally and 8ft vertically or the top of the bathtub rim.

A surface light in a shower should be suitable for wet location.

shortcircuit

Hi,
Thanks for the reply. Doesn't Art 680.43 (A) require a recept NO CLOSER than 5 feet on a Indoor installation of a spa or hot tub. This doesn't include a switch for the tub or light for the tub does it? Isn't this addressed somehwere? Seems like I read that somewhere...maybe in Stallcups electrical design book?

Art 680.43 (B)covers the lighting

410.4 (D) covers bathtubs and showers

I beleive there are restrictions on distances but they only apply to certain types of installations and fixtures.

As I read it there is some restriction as long as the light is approved for the location.

-regards

Mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 11-22-2004).]

I am not sure if you mean what you mean by saying approved [Linked Image]

Take a look at the definition of both listed and approved.
Whirlpools, spas and hottubs usually get mixed up by people. This is why the terminology in our industry is so important.

Pierre

Hi,
Thanks for the reply...I mean that the light fixture is LISTED or APPROVED for WET LOCATIONS...but a shower is a DAMP location is it not?

-regards

Mustang

Showers, tubs, spas and hot tubs are both different and simular, but not the same.

Quote

680.43 Indoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed indoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article except as modified by this section...

I(C) Wall Switches. Switches shall be located at least 1.5 m (5 ft), measured horizontally, from the inside walls of the spa or hot tub.
Receptacles, wall switches, and electrical devices and controls not associated with a spa or hot tub are required to be located at least 5 ft from the inside wall of the spa or hot tub. Receptacles within 10 ft are required to be protected by a GFCI. Receptacles supplying power to a spa or hot tub are also required to be protected by a GFCI unless the unit is a listed package unit with integral GFCI protection.
Lighting fixtures, lighting outlets, and ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans located less than 12 ft over a spa or hot tub and within 5 ft horizontally from the inside walls of the spa or hot tub are required to be protected by a GFCI.

Hi,
Thanks for the replies. I knew I read that somewhere.

That is why I post questions on the site.

You may think you know everything but it only goes to show it never hurts to ask a question! What is that old saying you hear all the time? "The only dumb question is the question you didnt ask?"

Yes I am a Master Electrician.

Thats one copy and paste I do not mind!

Thanks E57.

-regards

MUSTANG

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 11-22-2004).]

No worries I have to look several times most times, "Grrrr, it's in here somewhere!"

Anyway, I posted that as I was being called to diner, but had one otherthing to add. Although there isn't a restriction on switches by a shower persay, it is always best for just using the noodle, and common sense etc. and imagining the shower running to see that you wont be in the path of spraying water, or making the switch too accessable. I however think this is something the code missed.

---------------------------
Oh, and this only SF.... In my neck of the woods all lighting below 8' from the top of the tub or shower pan must be GFI'ed, reguardless of fixture type. I can feel the rumbling of Electure now, awakening like a sleeping giant, to say, "They can't supercede the state....."

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 11-22-2004).]

Mustang...your 1st post said a "whirlpool tub" which is different from a hot tub or spa.The code identifies a whirlpool tub as a "hydromassage tub" which is covered by part 7 of article 680 and is not required to comply with other parts of article 680

The difference between a hydromassage tub and a hot tub is that a hydromassage tub is drained after each use. Hot tubs use chemicals.

I would consider the ceiling area over a shower stall a wet location.

shortcircuit

Hi,
Thanks for the replies again. Thanks Shortcut for defining the difference between bathtub/whirlpool tub and SPA/hot tub.

The tub/shower switch/outlet installation is a tricky animal too.

That really clears up some confusion.

-regards

Mustang

Mustang, I would haveto agree with e57 and not have the switch for the shower to accessable. As for the tub switch I think it is done via a pressure switch, no electrical power here. What I normally do is to install a receptical under the tub near the motor (as they all come with a plug & cord) on the load side of a GFI receptical for resetting if needed. Most always the GFI is on the backside of an adjoining wall (toilet area, etc.).

Shower light trims for recessed lights are listed for wet locations.
Thus, I would agree with shortcircuit that this area is a wet location and only lightling fixtures listed for such should be used.

Hey guys,

I'm new to this site. I found it while looking for the definition of a wet/damp location in regards to a shower stall. I must say that I have a different opinion about a shower stall ceiling being a wet location. I believe it is a damp location by definition that it occasionally will become wet but mostly is damp. It does not get "saturated with water" as defined by a wet location. I also would submit that the building code only requires ceramic tile (or other impervious barrier) to be installed 6 ft. above the shower base. I did find an interpretation from UL that also declares it a damp location

Wecome HLCbuild !
You may be correct but I only install fixtures rated for wet locations in shower stalls. It could be a little bit of over design but it makes me feel better. Most, if not all fixtures I have come across that are designed for installation in a shower stall are listed for wet locations. Now, I'll give you that this does not necessarily equate shower stall to wet location but apparently it makes the manufacturer feel better too.

Electric Ian,

I commend you for using wet location fixtures in the shower, but the largest wattage fixture I could find for this application was 60 watts in an insulated ceiling and some of my customers don't like showering in the dark. I've installed both types

Hmm, interesting. Can you point me to a "damp location" only fixture that is advertised as being compliant for shower stall installation? I honestly can't find one. Every hit I've checked for "shower stall" lights, specifically states "listed for wet locations" or "damp/wet locations"

I don't believe the fixture has to be specified for a shower...just approved for use in a damp location. I use Lightolier fixtures and almost all ot the incandescent trims are rated for use in damp locations. I've been doing quite a bit of research on this subject, even contacted the VA State code administrator for an opinion. His reply was "the ceiling above a shower stall was considered a damp location"

We're all entitled to our opinions. I consider it a wet location.

I thought there was a reference in the code requiring lights in a shower stall to be approved for wet locations. So, being as my wife is working tonight and there's nothing good on TV I start looking for this in the good book. So, interestingly enough, I find an explicit reference to this in the article on mobile and manufactured homes (see below). But for the life of me, I cannot locate the same explicit statement anywhere else in the code. Is it possible the code considers this area a wet location in a mobile/manufactured home but the same location in a standard home is considered a damp location. I don't get it? Any other opinions out there?
------------
550.14(D) Bathtub and Shower Luminaires(Fixtures). Where a luminaire (lightingfixture) is installed over a bathtub or in a shower stall, it shall be of the enclosed and gasketed type listed for wet locations.
--------

I install Nutone fan/light combination units in shower stalls and they are rated for a 100 watt bulb...plenty of lumens!

shortcircuit

It is interesting how the code is specific for manufactured and mobile homes yet is silent on standard construction homes. Seems we have found the ugly stepchild...

I use recessed cans with a shower trim, works fine.. plenty of light

Hi,
if you have a handbook, look at page 461...Exhibit 410.1 it says right there that SURFACE MOUNTED or recessed luminaire is acceptable within the zone.

Doesnt that mean that any SURFACE MOUNTED or recessed luminaire is allowed?

-regards

Mustang

Hi,
Settled on a Halo recessed can and will use shower trim.

Any problems with that?

-regards

Greg

Use H5T with 5050 trim = 75watt A19 bulb...

Use H5ICAT with 5050 trim = 40watt A19 bulb...

Use H7T with 172PS trim = 100watt A19 bulb...

Use H7ICT with 172PS trim = 60watt A19 bulb...

I still prefer useing a exhaust fan/light combo over a shower. We have to have bathrooms vented to the exterior of the house around here...Nutone 8664RP is my cost effective solution and gives plenty of light with 100watt A19 bulb.However,it must be GFCI protected when installed above a shower stall according to instructions.

shortcircuit

Shortcircuit-Hey where did you get that nickname from?...Thanks for the PN's for those cans...That will save me some time!

I suggested the Nutone Fan/Light combo you mentioned and also mentioned that a recessed can with a shower trim would be accpetable..I guess she decided that she wanted the cans..The price of the fan/light combo higher must have been higher than a recessed can.

Thanks for the info.

-regards

Greg

A couple of things:
1. Remember the code is written to cover some very broad concepts... a bathroom for example. The switch location, or the receptacle location in bathrooms that are very small and have a tub/shower located directly adjacent to the basin leaves very little room in some instances for the device location. The requirements permit the device location as close to the tub/shower enclosure as possible without encroaching the enclosure. If someone is showering and there is a shower curtian- whats the issue?

2. The 2005 now has specific direction as to the shower enclosure being defined as a WET location. This will help in determining the luminaire type required for these enclosures.

Pierre

For my more particular customers, I have voiced concern over not getting enough light from one can. So I suggested two cans. She went for it.