Look at what is NEW in Article 422 for cord and plug connected Range Hoods!

.......



[See ROP 17–21]

Why? What was the substantiation?

That is a good question Joe.

Do you mind if I just guess at the substantiation?

Could it be that it is expected a microwave hood combo unit may be installed at some later date?

I hope I am wrong about that.

Not making light of the issue, but I must live a sheltered life in that I have never installed a cord and plug connected range hood.

Roger

Roger, guess I have lived the same way. Never installed one in the 25 years I've been doing electrical work. Every range hood I have connected was hard wired.

Al

Hello Al, whew, I'm glad I'm not alone here.

Roger

Roger and Al where did you locate the disconnect switch?

Not in the cabinet I hope, that would be a 110.26 violation.

Just kidding I have only seen hard wired hoods also.

Bob

One reason you guys may not have seen a cord connected range hood is that they are sold at the Big Box stores and usually not installed by 'electricians'.

422.16(B)(4)Range Hoods.
Range hoods shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug connected with a flexible cord identified as suitable for the use on range hoods in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer, where all of the following conditions are met:


Bob, your reasoning is right on the money! See page 206 of the 2005 Analysis book.


Substantiation:
Many times range hoods are removed and replaced with a "microwave type" range hood. Allowing cord and plug connection will make the installation much easier for the homeowner because no "electrical change" to the wiring system will be required.

Panel Statement:
The permission to use cord-and-plug connection provides the ability to upgrade to a combined microwave range hood. The panel added the additional requirements to ensure a safe installation of a combined microwave range hood.


***This statement and code change says something to me that makes me very uneasy. Why is the NEC making code changes based on Homeowners performing installations. ELECTRICIANS should be installing electrical work and using the NEC as well as their learned skills from the field.****

Pierre

I agree Pierre. It sure seems strange that this passed. How many proposals do you see that really are good ideas but have no technical substantiation and get shot down because of it? It seems to me that this is no diffferent than the rest of them.

Pierre


Well said.

I also think of this.


With this reasoning 30 and 50 amp outlets should be provided at gas dryers and ranges in case the homeowner decides to change to electric in the future.

We better run 10/3 to this hood outlet in case the microwave hood combo that might be installed has browning elements.

Well I can't complain as I was not involved in the code making process.

Bob

I have been giving residential hoods thier own circuit for years. Most of the higher end ones really suck if you know what I mean, multiple motors, lighting, heat lamps, etc. Some will pull upwards of 12A. Justification alone for a dedicated circuit. However, I haven't seen one cord connected yet either??? Where would one place a plug for such an animale?

If you have an Analysis Book, it has a photo of an installation - with the receptacle installed above the unit, like a cabinet installed microwave.

Pierre

"This statement and code change says something to me that makes me very uneasy. Why is the NEC making code changes based on Homeowners performing installations. ELECTRICIANS should be installing electrical work and using the NEC as well as their learned skills from the field"

You guys aren't seeing this as a plus- You are getting paid to install the circuit when you wire the home. Now let the home owner worry about the physical part of venting and mounting the Microwave.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 10-24-2004).]

Hi,
I appreciate you bringing this up...

I think making assumptions about what may or may not happen in the future is not a very sound practice. If they are going to do this who decides what articles should be considered for future updates or modifications?

You do not build a house to withstand a hurricane or tornado...it is too expensive.

I have installed a lot fo the new cord and plug connected Microwave/Vent hood combos...you do not need an extra circuit for a vent-a-hood...you need an extra circuit for the microwave..

Sure you can get paid for a separate circuit to a required outlet but that is after YOU have to answer for WHY and then listen to the HO say...OH I WILL NEVER DO THAT, I DONT NEED IT...

I know of several cities that require an existing house that gets a service upgrade to have the whole house brought up to todays code requiremnts...GFI indoor and out..separate laundry circuit etc..

while this all sounds great..the electrician is the one who has to break the news to the homeowner...it makes us sound like we are drumming up work..i always told them to thank the city and to call them if they had any complaints...most did not but a few got hot under the collar..

anyway..i beleive in making plans for future expansion, but not to go around trying to forsee the future..how many bedrooms do you know of that are now a HOME OFFICE with a single outlet that has surge protectors daisy chained around from the tv to the printer to the computer etc?

how many garages are now bedrooms?

how many garages are now workshops?

see what I am saying?

why dont they just require an extra circuit for small appliances in the kitchen? instead of two make it three or four..who knows what the kitchens of tomorrow will look like!

-regards

mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 10-25-2004).]

Joe, I haven't reviewed this part of the code changes. Is this mandantory on all hood fans or just cord and plug? Is this in affect in the 2005 Code? Thanks. Steve

This comes from the NEC draft and appears to be the same as in the 2005 NEC. This is not a mandatory "shall" rule rule, it is a "shall be permitted rule", see 90.5.

I installed a range hood that came with a factory cord. Big unit. Can't remember the manufacturer but I do beleive they required a seperate circuit.

It would seem to me that any hood that has a cord & plug would be likely one with a charcoal screen, intended to operate without an outside vent, and added later. If that's the case, this code provision seems to be futile.

I think that many on the code panels have confused "wise" with "bare minimum" requirements.

Funny thing is, I know folks who've been members of the NFPA for years, belong to the "electrical section," and have never had an opportunity to take part in the process, vote on the code, etc.
Without accountability at the grass root level, it's no surprise that the code seems to be drifting away from reality.

I'm guessing the panel concluded that the upgrade does happen and it happens frequently enough to represent a significant hazard. Let's face it, if there is a plug in the cabinet, no one is going to call an electrician to hook up their over-range microwave and that kind of change is a natural for the DIYer

It sounds to me like a good idea. The EC gets paid for the circuit and the homeowner has a receptacle that he can use to put whatever he wants above the stove. This is sort of like plugging in a coffee maker so the homeowner can do it correctly. Nothing changes if it is hardwired like most range hoods.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy

Charlie
I'm not trying to be quarrelsome when I say that you can take this look ahead stuff too far. I have had inspectors red tag a twelve slot panel that was used as service equipment because some one might install tandem breakers in it in the future. I've had home inspectors criticize multiwire branch circuits as a danger to do it yourself homeowners. The implications are ominous. If the entire electrical system has to be built so as to protect unqualified persons from their own stupidity we are heading down a dangerous road. It is a legal axiom that "no one can be required to imperil them self to rescue another from their own folly. That axiom is known as the doctrine of rescue. If the trend suggested by this change continues you should be able to sue uninvolved bystanders for not pulling you out of your burning car after you crash while driving drunk. I do realize that I'm offering an extreme example but that really is were this nanny state regulation is heading.
--
Tom H

I have moved this thread to the new 2005 forum. Please follow the link below to find the new location.

https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000002.html