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Posted By: CTwireman #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/26/03 02:04 AM
I had an interesting discussion today. I was told by an electrical contractor that they used #14 pigtails for all their receptacle connections on 20 amp ciruits.

Their justification for this pratice is that they install 15 amp receptacles, and that the circuit should never be loaded above 16 amps anyway.

They say that they pass inspection, and I believe that since these jobs are not hidden from the public eye. They are in big-name retail stores in major malls in this area.

I took the liberty of calling them "hacks" and of course I was scoffed at. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/26/03 10:10 AM
From Mike Holts newsletter.
Q8. I have an issue where a contractor used 15A, 125V receptacles on a 20A circuit with 12 AWG conductors. In addition, the contractor used 14 AWG tap conductors to the 15A receptacles. I feel that a 20A rated receptacle is required and the conductors to the receptacle shall be a minimum 12 AWG. Am I right?

A8. Almost. A 15A rated receptacle can be connected to a 20A branch circuit that supplies two or more receptacles (this would include a single duplex receptacle, because it contains two receptacles) [210.21(B)(3)]. However, the tap rule contained in 210.19(A)(4) Ex. 1(c) clearly states that branch circuit taps are not permitted for receptacles. So the 15A receptacles are fine, as long as there are at least two of them on a circuit, but the 14 AWG pigtails are a Code violation
Posted By: winnie Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/26/03 12:31 PM
Probably confusion with the allowable taps for 'outlets' in Exception 1 of 210.19.(4) and also shown in table 210.24. If I understand this correctly, in a 20A (or even a 30A) circuit, you are allowed to have 14ga tap wires to an 'outlet'...but the outlet must _not_ be a receptacle outlet.

This makes sense since many outlets are fixed known loads, but receptacle outlets have the capability of being loaded until the breaker trips.

-Jon
Posted By: Bjarney Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/26/03 05:36 PM
It’s hard to imagine there could be more than a few pennies saved for a foot of #12, possibly larger splices and extra labor needed. Maybe for single receptacles at best, but certainly not duplex...
Posted By: Roger Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/26/03 07:03 PM
Bjarney, I would think the extra effort to carry #14 wire around for these pigtails would cost more.

I think there is probably a sinister reason behind this practice, they are using backstab devices.

Of course it may just be the installers have weak hands. [Linked Image]

Roger
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/26/03 07:33 PM
Before the rocks start flying.....
Most installations are inspected "rough" and "final". On "rough", most times, the "tails" are not made-up, unless it's a multi-wire circuit, then the neutrals are tailed. At "final", all the devices, plates, etc, are installed, and the AHJ doesn't take anything "apart" device wise.

Personally, a comm EC that uses #14 tails is not the "norn" around here, as I have never heard of this. (As an EC and an AHJ). Not saying someone would "do it", but it's very doubtful.

The 32 sq mile twp that I am an AHJ in has "everything" from a major regional mall, to office complexes, strip malls, retail, warehouses, hospital, chem plants, and tons of resi, and I have not come across this.

As Bjarney implied, doubtful if it's a $$$ move.

John
Posted By: Roger Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/26/03 10:23 PM
John, our local inspectors will have random receptacles and switches opened up in their finals. If we are in a state final it isn't uncommon for 50% of all devices to be opened.

In both of the above it does depend on whether you are new to the inspectors and your past history with the them.

Roger
Posted By: Gwz Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/27/03 12:46 PM
Several years ago, had a new contractor.

He had several one and two family dwellings to wire and he used EMT.

I bet he lost money on the first unit.

He used 12AWG and 20A CB's.

When he got to the first junction box he changed to 14 AWG.

Was that $$$$ ?
Posted By: dana1028 Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/27/03 06:03 PM
I've seen this more recently in residential work...EC's using #12 NM and those cheap duplex from Home Depot....you used to be able to backstab these with the #12, now you need a #14...so they pigtail with #14.
Posted By: triple Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 09/28/03 02:53 AM
EXCELLENT answer Electricmanscott! It is nice to see others referencing known/reliable sources (other than the often ambiguous code-book). Forums would be quite desolate without opinions. However, opinions alone have their limits and are all too often misconstrued as facts.
Posted By: zapped208 Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 10/04/03 10:51 AM
You guys are going to hate me, so don't stone me, but........ This is a very common pactice here and other areas. We take a 20 circuit and loop the feeds with #12 at sw's and tap on #14's for sw legs and 3ways in houses and very light small commerial jobs. We also use #14 taps on sw receps, do to the fact that if you are using 15 amp rated devices anyway, you cannot plug in a 20a rated cord end. Also I do not back stab devices.
Posted By: iwire Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 10/04/03 01:13 PM
I am not going to stone you but I will ask where the heck is the inspector?

Using 14 awg on a 20 amp branch circuit is a clear violation. 240.4(D)

Even if there is no inspections, what about pride in workmanship?
Posted By: Gwz Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 10/04/03 02:23 PM
Does your STATE adopt the NEC , even with some modifications ?

If it does, most likely any electrical work within that state must meet the adopted electrical code.

As iwire noted - it is a violation for the installer to do that type of tap. (even if it is not inspected.)

Read 90.1(A) and 90.1(B) and 90.5(A).
Then re-read 240.4(D).
Posted By: Roger Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 10/04/03 03:55 PM
Along with Bob and Glenn's posts, the device or fixture is not in the scenario. the conductor ampacity of the entire circuit is the only concern.

A manufactured fixture whip or fixture cord assembly is not part of our portion of the premises wiring system, and would be a different conversation.

Roger
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 10/04/03 08:17 PM
Zapped I don't hate you and I won't stone you. Also I won't hire you to wire my house. You are blatantly violating the NEC and posing a possible hazard.
Posted By: wa2ise Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 10/04/03 08:32 PM
Quote
We also use #14 taps on sw receps, do to the fact that if you are using 15 amp rated devices anyway, you cannot plug in a 20a rated cord end. Also I do not back stab devices.

The user could plug in two 10A loads into a duplex socket, adding up to 20A on the pigtail leads. Not that a few inches of #14 wire will lose you much voltage, or get overheated inside a box (assuming it's not bundled into a cable). But I would not use #14 for the pigtails anyway. The people who wrote the code may be aware of reasons and problems that I am not aware of.
Posted By: iwire Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 10/04/03 09:11 PM
Quote
I don't hate you and I won't stone you. Also I won't hire you to wire my house.


[Linked Image] LMAO [Linked Image]
Posted By: zapped208 Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 10/04/03 09:38 PM
Thanks guys for all your replies, I was expecting that. The company I work for has done it that way for over 50 years, and I have been there 15. I always said what I thought but to no avail. Inspections in this area in PA are pretty lax, you can do basically what you want. Big change for me since I moved here from NY. I do not do this in my own side business, if that matters, just letting you know how people do things in different parts of our country. We are using the 2002 code.
Posted By: DougW Re: #14 taps on 20 amp circuit - 11/13/03 02:45 AM
When I was younger, my Dad told me a story...

Back in the day, a big outfit was nailed in Chicago. CEC required (still does) 12 awg in commercial and idustrial installs.

Seems that with several 1000 feet, the EC got cheap, and would make the run in 14 awg, pull the wire back by 3' one way, cut it, and splice the required 12 onto the end, and then do the same on the other end.

When they tagged this guy, he wasn't only hit for the ampacity violation, but for each illegal splice in each run they found it in (3 viols per run).

Then they started backtracking and checking his past permit pulls.

Things got real ugly... and the code inspectors started diggin' a little deeper when issuing CO's
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