There's an article in the July EC magazine that talks about the new GFCI construction requirements. I was surprised to read that if these are miswired the button will pop out and they will not reset, (as we expected) but they will be energized?

Bill

They remain energized just like the old style? ( except the old style would reset )

Donnie,

Yes, that's what it seems to say ...
I guess you're supposed to notice the button is popped out and realize something might be wrong, but if the outlet works is 'Joe Average' going to know or care?

Bill

Here is the article: http://www.ecmag.com/editorial_detail.aspx?id=749

One of the "three of the most important changes in the certification objectives" is:

I don't think I've ever looked closely at an American GFCI receptacle.

How are the two sets of terminals labeled? Line and load?

Paul:

Exactly. In fact, the ones made by Leviton have a yellow warning label over the load terminals, to help prevent miswiring.

I think it would be very cost prohibive if not physically impossible to manufacture a GFCI that would disconnect the receptacle face as a result of mis-wiring.

The block diagram for a properly wired device is similar to:

[incoming power]->[Line terminal]->[GFCI sensing]->[power disconnect]->[receptacle face]->[load terminals]->[down stream devices]

On a miswired receptacle the power is applied to the "load" terminals and therefore directly to the receptacle face. To prevent this from happening a second set of disconnect contacts would be required after the receptacle face. A possible block diagram would then be:

[incoming power]->[load terminal]->[power disconnect]->[receptacle face]->[power disconnect]->[GFCI sensing]->[line terminals]->[down stream devices]

The all but failsafe solution: use GFCI breakers instead.

I'm seeing alot of trip indicator lites on these but don't know if it shows miswiring or not.

JBD,

I'm sure it's not as simple as it sounds, most things aren't.

It's a surprise to me though, I assumed claims that it 'would not reset' had something to do with denergizing the receptacle so it couldn't be used if there was no GFCI protection. Didn't everyone think that would be the case?

Bill

This sounds like the GFCI receptacles are single pole breaking only.

GFCI receptacles here in Sweden (and presumably in all of Europe) are double pole breaking. Portable GFCI's are also double pole breaking. (It can be turned either way in the receptacle and fits both grounded and ungrounded receptacles.)

How much does a GFCI receptacle cost in the US? A portable GFCI?

C-H:

By double-pole do you mean that the both the hot and neutral are interrupted?

I know that at least on a newer GFCI that I tested via the "TEST" button, there was no voltage when testing hot to neutral and hot to ground. There was no continuity, testing neutral to ground. Once it was reset, there was voltage hot to neutral and hot to ground, and continuity neutral to ground.

Paul:

Here are some photos of a GFCI receptacle:

The yellow label covers the LOAD screws. (First 2 photos)


The padlock symbol shows that the device meets the new requirements.


Notice it is shipped in the "tripped" mode, requiring correct wiring and pressing the "RESET" button (at least that's what the instructions read...)

[This message has been edited by ThinkGood (edited 07-31-2003).]

Thanks for that.

It looks to me as though the manufacturer/UL-specification has done all that can reasonably be expected and then some. Personally, I would have drawn the line at including instructions which clearly explain which set of terminals to go where for the less technically-minded (e.g. Line=In, Load=Out, in layman's terms).

To have the receptacle dead on application of power to the load terminals would involve extra complexity which seems out of proportion to the problem.

There has to come a point at which we say "That's enough - You are now responsible for correct use of the device."


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-01-2003).]

Bill,
I assumed the same thing. Sounds like another case of a manufacturers implying that their safety products do more then what they actually do.

ThinkGood,

Yes, exactly. And it sounds like your device is that type too.

If the GFCI trips when miswired, I can't see no way it could supply power.

Ahh, hey, I got an idea. What if the text you quoted should have been: "...but the other receptacles still work" It doesn't take out the breaker, just the receptacles on it's own front.

If you have one of these devices, why don't you simply test reversing polarity?

How about a diode, or maybe a really small "ONE WAY" sign for the electrons?

One way signs only work for DC, you know. With AC you are just gonna get pulsating DC.

I checked this out today. When I reversed line and load the reset button would not "reset". The gfci face was still energized and the indicator light was not lit. The load receptacles were dead. Sound like we've been sold a bill of goods once again.

I'm disappointed. I guess it's an improvement if the downstream loads won't work if it's miswired, I wish the indicator light would be on though.

Bill

Now that really sucks! (pardon the language!).

I was also _ASSUMING_ that the devices would not be live at the Receptacle if Line / Load was mismatched.

Well, better go back and fix all those GFCI Recepts that I hooked up backwards!
<Joke>

Scott35

The one I photographed doesn't have an indicator light...

C-H:


So then you would have just half of the 60Hz, right? How about a half-wave rectifier...oh, never mind!