What is the normal case when dry wall people cover over the outlets and i`m not sure of exact location. If I tear up sheet rock to find it shouldn`t they repair it? This has been the worst job I`ve ever seen 1" gaps around the boxes the rec are floating in the box with only the cover for real support.I`ll have to do extra work for this to work out.With contract written how do you make out in a situation like this?

Have the drywall contractor find the boxes that he covered up and repair his own mistakes and then refuse to trim the job out untill the holes are repaired around the boxes.That wiil usually get the owner or general contractors attention.Once you have their attention,show them that 314.21 does not permit the gap around the box to be larger than 1/8 inch.

Reel break,

Ususaly I ask them nicely to find my hidden boxes. If the don't then I bring out my sledge hammer and tell them, that I will find it for them. That works most of the time.

Rarely will I go to trim out a job and not have something covered up. We paint the floors so we know where the boxes are. I have had as many as 13 covered up in one house.

I do my best not to damage the drywall when I have to dig it out by using a piece of #12 stripped out with a sharp point on one end. You can feel when you hit the box and if you miss it only takes a little spackle to fill th hole.

If you p*ss off a sheetrocker then they can make life miserable by routing off all your wires and covering up as much as they can get away with. I try to respect their work the same way they respect mine.

I wouldn't look for 13 boxes without someone paying my labor for it,and if you backcharge for repairing damaged wire,that s@$t will stop,too.

arseegee

2nd that, but i do point these things out to my GC's.

with a twist.....

~ the new energy seminars would dictate a qt of condensation per yr on a tightly routed device, and 30 qts per yr on loose ones..

~your device life will suffer from instability, as well as the added attraction of condensation.

~anyone can drywall, as well as anyone can BE a drywaller tommorrow ,the cast of Dumb & Dumber could drywall.....
but it takes a decade to produce a well rounded sparky......please prioritize...

It has been my observation that "anyone" can't drywall and do it the way it should be done.

I have seen good, and not so good jobs.

Ed

It makes me cringe when these board hangers break out the zip tool and plunge it into what they think might be the location of the box. I have actually had them cut round holes around a square box.

If they do not respect my work then I sure as SH** won't respect theirs.

Break out the hammer and let them drag their behinds back into repair the sloppy results of their inability to use a tape measure.

I also mark the floor where boxes and recessed lites are located. To help safeguard against the rotozip I try to carefully fold my wires as far as possible towards the back of the box, but even this does not always guarantee against nicked and cut wires. I have also been taking digital pics on bigger jobs.
I spend a bit of time "chisling" out plaster.

The bottom line is sheetrockers and plasterers get paid by the square foot. They are rewarded for speed and we do suffer because of it.

what can you do.

[This message has been edited by RandyO (edited 10-23-2002).]

We have been experimenting with a metal plate that fits over the device. It enables us to instal the device before the drywall is installed. The drywallers are complaining because the plate is breaking the bits on there roto zips.
(I feel so sorry for them.
No one asked us when they started using the roto zip!)

I have had my share of drywaller problems. The job I am on now is a new 20,000 sq.ft. church and I can't say enough good things about the crew that hung this job. I used 4x4 boxes with mudrings and they were all cut out perfectly with none covered up! They nicked the wires in 5 ceiling boxes but they marked them with red masking tape and came and told me about each one. I bragged on them every day to the GC and to the finishers that hired them. I also told a couple of other GCs that were looking for hangers. They heard about what I was saying and I've got rocker buddys for life. I think that it's fine to hammer the hacks as long as you let the good ones know they are appreciated.

Harold
Like your sledge hammmer but i have always used a double bittted ax when i tell them that is how i'll find covered over boxes.
Most of the time I do not bother the general for one or two boxes. Just find em and go on. 13 would get a change/ extra work order signed before finish.
last job the drywallers stunk. change orders because of his no speak english sloppys increased the job by 35%.

I just tell GC's goof plates are $5 each....

Making the floor is a good idea.
To help locate a box that was covered over, I use a 2' level (any straight edge will do) to help find the "bulge" in the wall.
Then measure up from the floor to locate the bottom of the box (that's how I set them) and take a stab with a thin bladed screwdriver. Most of the time I hit them dead on. For the few that I don't I just tell the finish crew it needs to be fixed (I usually have a few others that need to be fixed as they made a hole you could drive a truck through).
As for having the drywallers find the hidden boxes, I'd rather do it myself.
I hate fixing nicked or chopped off wires - I have a word for the drywall (OK sheetrock for the more senior members) hangers - set the depth gauge on the rotozip!

If you set the depth, then you can't cut the openings with you head turned around to talk to Ralph while u smoke a cigarette.

coincidentally today, a self-proclaimed GC, rocker, painter, concrete form & carpenter asked me what i was holding.....

it was a mud ring oye!

what gets me is these sorts charge top $$$ to an unsuspecting public.

This gets better I finally got all the jumbo plates and still 5 boxes still show sheetrockers great work and to take the cake the contractor told me to get some calk.Also the trim rings for my can lites have a gap all the way around...6" cans I told the GC that this was unexceptable.I only guess the sheetrocker was his wife or brother he got offended by me trashing the workmanship of his crew. When I showed him 314.21 his reply was thats in the electrical code so you should fix it.I hit the roof....go figure.One thing, I hate to put my name on this panel box.

So go buy a tube of black or bronze caulk and smear it around the box

Use non-paintable silicone. That will fix em! The part that stinks about this is since it is at a receptacle box somehow it's your fault. From what you describe here I would not install the devices or the recessed trims untill they fix THEIR mess.
*Mongoose*

Your GC does not sound like a guy I would like to work for.

Nick, what are these metal plates you speak of? Are they "home-made" or an available product from a distributor? Also, I assume the ears must be cut off the devices to avoid interference with the sheetrock. So if the edge of the sheetrock does not line up exactly flush with the box, won't you have a "fit and finish" problem come trim-out?

There is another product available for this situation. I can't remember the name but I have some in the truck. "Device leveler" or something like that. I'll check into it and see what I find.

On one building I had a lot of trouble on the first floor with cut wires so I installed utility box blank covers on all of the plaster rings. I tried the three different brands available and found one that fit really well. When I had complained about the damaged conductors on the first floor the GC had pointed out some boiler plate language in the specs that required all crafts to protect work in place. I showed the GC the new technique and assured him that I had photographs of the covers in place. I told him that the dry wall guys could not remove my covers without his accepting responsibility for the work. When he told the dry wall guys that they could not remove the covers they tried to jack him up for more money and he threw them off the job. When the new dry wall crew arrived they were greeted by signs that said "Danger All wiring under stress test. 277 VOLTS. Do not tamper. I had no problem with the new crew.
--
Tom

Every day is a stress test. Good idea with the covers.

The covers are made by our prefab department. Yes, the ears have to be cut off so the box has to be mounted very secure. Kick plates with the brackets that push against the other side of the wall work best.