I am selling my home and the buyers sent over a home inspector to do the routine inspection. Well I got the report and he said that on the interior of my electrical panel the wires had some drywall mud covering some of the wires and some connections. Per his report "Clearing of mud is not allowed, replacement is required". How in the world would I replace all the wires in the house. Is it normal to recommend to replace all the wires for this??

Sounds like another home inspector that has his head up his a**. I don't think we have wired any homes in the past 20 years that the drywall contractor didn't get mud on the wires in every box. Its best to clean as much of it off as you can but a little mud is not going to hurt anything as long as it is not on the panel bus bars or in any of the connections. There is no reason to rewire you house because of this.

I agree with caselec (to include the part about where the HI's head was located). However, I must also add that a reputable home inspector would have written to have an electrician check if he thought something was wrong. Home Inspectors should not recommend what a trade person should do, they should only point out the problems and have you contact the appropriate contractor. They should also never try and cite codes. BTW, I am a licensed electrician and a home inspector, in my reports I never recommend what to do, I note what I feel is the problem and why I think so. I then recommend they seek a qualified and licensed contractor, to include the electrical, I will not work on any home I inspect, it's unethical to use home inspections to get work.

110.11? Probably not.

Ask for a Code reference. I have written several rebuttals to Home Inspection Reports.
You, as a licensed electrician, are more qualified to determine what is safe or not than a "Jack-of-all-Trades" home inspector.
(Although in my experience some seem to be about a "Deuce-of-all-Trades").

yes your inspector is out there, and your mudder is a slob..... perhaps they should do lunch?

I have never heard of such BULL S@#T !!
The only way to avoid the mud would be to hard pipe the house and not pull any wire until all of the mud has dried.Unless the inspector had his own house wired like this,he needs to pull his head out of it's present location , rip his house apart and replace all of his own wiring.



[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 10-14-2002).]

Mike,

Can you send us a picture?
If you can, Email it to me and I will post it here.

Bill@Electrical-Contractor.net

Bill, I just sent the pics. Thanks

Here is Mikes' Condemned Panel;







Comments?

Now that there is a mess.
Looks like there is "mud" on the lower right buss, also.
Hey, you sure that it's "spackle"??
Must have been one ticked off spackler!
IMHO, I would have it de-energized and cleaned as best as possible.
Code reference??? 110-11??
Home inspectors usually don't have a code book!

John

I rescind my first post (sorry, mister home inspector,but you know ya'lls reputation)
These pics almost look like the 1 that Joe posted in the paint on wires thread.No matter how much mud is on the wires,it doesn't justify rewiring the house.The service conductors,neutrals,and grounds appear to have been terminated before the spackling,so that connection should not have been compromised.However,the breakers appear to have been installed afterwards and the connection between the breaker and the busbars is definitely questionable.From the looks of things,the electrician needs his ass kicked for not protecting the panel and for not cleaning up the mess afterwards and the spackler needs his kicked for his notrespecting other peoples work.


[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 10-14-2002).]

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 10-14-2002).]

Those are revealing pictures of a hideous installation—almost to the point of bus/pan replacement and scrupulous removal of likely hygroscopic and alkaline "spray" on cable insulation.

Pissing contest indeed.




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 10-14-2002).]

I still think that the inspector should have called for an electrician to evaluate and repair as the electrician saw fit. The inspector (unless he is an electrician) is not qualified to determine remediation of the problem. However, I also feel that this points out that there is a need for other eyes to look at something.

Bob

Thanks for all the input. I have an electrician coming in about an hour and a half so I will keep you posted.

I think 110.12(C) applies here. I don't see any requirement for replacement. Drywall mud comes off of metal fairly easy, I think this panel could be easily cleaned up with a small nylon "toothbrush". After cleaning, I'd let your inspector prove that the busbars have been damaged by corrosion.

I'm sure in the future you'll be putting a cardboard cover over the panel when this drywall crew comes around. Seems to me these guys deserve a payback.

Tom

Tom,
Agreed, but the inspector has no business making a determination as to how to solve the problem unless he is a licensed electrician.

Where is your main disconnect?

230.71 permits a max of 6 without a main. I count 14.

If you have to replace all your wire, you should also replace your panel. Not that I'm a home inspector or anything.

TArett - I would guess this panel is a sub panel and not the service panel so a main disconnect is not needed.

After seeing this panel I agree that it's a mess but drywall mud comes off very easily. The original electrician should have spent the time to clean it up and charged the GC for his time.

I think that I would require the replacement of the interior guts and all breakers that have been installed on the contaminated buss. The dry mud may have damaged the breaker connection when the breakers were installed and the wet "mud" may have started corrosion of the aluminum buss. I have worked on a number of panels where the buss/breaker connection failed a few years later because of this type of damage. If the buss was cleaned prior to the installation of the breakers and shows no evidence of corrosion, I would permit the use of the panel. I see no problem with the wire, but it would be nice if they were cleaned up a bit before they were terminated.
Don

I have had a state electrical inspector red tag panels that had that type of drywaller damage. The panel and wires should have been cleaned with the guts replaced. The drywaller should be back charged for the repair. That what we did to fix that damage.
The inspector's rationale was there was no way to clean off the mud with out causing corrosion to the buss bars and other bolted connections.
BTW after paying for 24 150 amp panels the drywaller made sure his guys did not knock off or remove the panel covers for the rest of that project.
IMO this panel needs the guts removed, cleaned then dried out, and new guts and breakers installed. It would probably be cheaper to replace the panel.
This is about the only time I'll agree with a housing inspector.

Sounds to me like the home owner did send his own inspector, did the inspector write this down, if so can you email me a copy of the report? I'm a contractor, and this sounds like a scam on his side. You see, sometimes inspectors will point out the violations to the home owner, so that the owner will ask if they know someone who can fix it. Some inspectors may recommend their buddys and make money on the referral. Do not hesitate to challenge the inspectors findings. They are public servants 90% of the time and have to follow more rules. If this was a company owned inspector, then you know he is in for the money on the referral. Also, did he mean replace the box and clean up the wires, or did he mean everything inside the box?

Jacuzzi Guy,
You're full of it. I am a Licensed Electrician, Licensed General Contractor, certified mold assessor and remediator and a Home Inspector. When I do an inspection, I will do no work on that home nor will I refer the client to anybody else to do that work. I simply tell them to check references, licenses, bonding and insurance and point them to the phone book. There are a lot of home inspectors who have the same quals (Home Inspectors who are electricians and contractors) as me who do the same thing. Sure there are some crooks out there, but I doubt very seriously if the contracting business is clean, why all the investigative reports into contractors? What about the wood destroying organism and pest inspectors? Do you feel the same about them? What about the electrician who inspects the electrical and says there's work to be done and bids on it? Is he wrong, or is he just doing his job? Read the previous posts, sure the inspector had no right (in any home inspectors standards of practice) to say that is wasn't allowed to clean it up (unless he is a licensed electrician), but he was correct in noting the deficiency and reporting it to his client. The inspectors job is to find and report those deficiencies.
Bob