http://web.bobvila.com/Expert/


[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 09-11-2002).]

So Joe,
......and your rates are ????

Free .... and you? Seems like we are all giving away free services here in the interest of safety.

Did you look over at the board identified above?

Is it for real?

Check this out:

http://www.bobvila.com/ultimate/Forum7/HTML/000392.html

Wanted: ECN members to shut this crap down!!

[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 08-22-2002).]

Joe & Everyone else:
Is this site for real??? I went to check it out; still laughing....
The #2 listing guy resembles Bill Gates??
The #3 listing has no qualifications, practices occult beliefs, & is a member of a "small coven"???
He gets 16 cents a minute; WOW $9.60 an hour.

Ya got to be kidding!!!!!

John
HotLine1


[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 08-20-2002).]

83 cents a minute to tell me how to tidy up my junk??!! I think they are kidding!

That whole "expert page" part leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. I notice there's an option to become an expert on the board. I wonder what credentials are required to join? I have a feeling I already know the answer.

This is for real. I came across this a while ago and decided to check it out. I signed up, made a nice profile, came up with some outrageous fee. Soon enough the emails started. I got a whole bunch of questions but responded to none. I was promptly "Fired"!

It looks like the service gets 30% commission.

EMScott,
Saw a couple of comments of yours and Joe's on there trying to warn people. Some of the stuff floating around is quite scary, like the thread about wiring a ceiling light/fan where someone suggested just trying different combinations of wires to get the new unit working. (O.K., let's try joining black to white folks!).

Bill,
Yep, looks like they're just interested in the commission.

Paul initially I wanted to help people but after reading some of the questions which come from people with absolutely no electrical knowledge it seems better to just point them to a pro.

Bill & Electricmanscott:
The best idea that I heard is "point them to a pro"
It's amazing that people will actually "pay" someone for advice via e-mail or chat.
I wonder if a person that gets "bad advice" from the net has a legal recourse????

See ya later
HotLine1
John

Bob's a bummer,
unmonitored prostitution of any given trade

not all DYI forums are like this

This was a good forum at one time.
One needs, as a tradesman, to be able to converse understandably the specific's of our trade to the general public.

This goes double for contracting....

They are currently looking for moderators.


IMO, Warren Goodrich came across better than many on the net, but he has run off to his own forum and changed servers so many times i've lost touch.

John,

Have to agree with you that I don't understand people paying. Charging for advice is one thing, but the only way I could feel comfortable about doing so in these sorts of situations would be if I actually went and saw the problem for myself. There are just too many variables otherwise.

Absoultely right, Paul! If you read alot of the responses, they go way above and beyond what was originally asked. The "advice" ends up far more complicated than it started out. As you said, there are far too many variables to accuurately diagnose many electrical problems on a public forum.

CTwireman
(et all)
it simply depends on to the extent both parties (inquisitor and advisor) are willing to go....not all DIY'er forums are created equal, and BOB is IMO a glaring example...

I pose this recent thread as example, in the electrical part of same forum

( took me awhile to find Warren & co..)

I have participated in the past to hone my own contractors vernacular per se'

An important attribute considering there are no OC permits or single fam inspections in my state of Vt.
Last but least, the roving bands of 'Uncle Fester'lectrican-at-large' are ever willing to provide competition here
(and time bombs free of charge)

Consider also my nieghboring state of NH , which has laws, that are enforced should only a conflaguration be seen from the state capitol.

Like it or not, we're a growing DIY society run rampant with said mindset of both large and small home centers.
The concept all but drowns out the small 'hire a tradesman' disclaimer seen in small print on the spanish side of enclosed instructions.

The sad part is , this position is reenforced by our own trade orginizations avocation by silence....

Point?

Well, if your going to contract, you're not going to do so spitting raw code articles all day.
There's nothing worse than customers viewing you as condensending, or a prima donna.

You'll need to speak clear english and provide a rational explanation as to WHY we have to do what we do, and WHY it is the safe way to do it.

If your phone rings as much as mine, you'll need choose your words carefully and try simple diagnostics in easy to understand terminology with people, or go hungry...

rrrruuuubbber biscuit!




[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 08-22-2002).]

With 2000 Big Boxes and counting, this problem is not going away any time soon.

What irks me is the notion that Internet Advice + Supplies/advice from Big Box + How-to Book/TV show = Instant Electrician.

Yet, to become a journeyman in my state requires 8000 hours of OJT plus 150 hours of class time per year for 4 years.

So, with that in mind,
How can DIYers be expected to do wiring properly and safely?

Not many.

DIYers will always be able to find enough information to be dangerous, be it from a book or the internet.

I, for one, will not remain silent in my objections to unqualified/untrained people doing electrical work.

[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 08-22-2002).]

Does anyone have knowledge of any lawsuits to date from this kind of cyberspace advice?

If not, it's coming when a death or fire happens, even if the advice was perfect.

Would a Surgeon or a Veterinarian give advice over the internet to someone who sewed up their drunken buddy or hunting dog because the DIYer had some experience?

Electricity is no less dangerous.

Extreeme comparison but relative.

Roger

Joe,

Remember when we were called the "Secret Society" of electricians. Because they thought that we were better than them? Or so they thought. How many hours of free advice did we give them. And al because we want safety first. period

Caper

Caper:

Yes I remember, and that was back in 1990 when we had some real PITA'ss. We settled their concerns because we all stuck together!

Those days are gone forever!

Joe "The Nail"

From a recent brand-“L” GFCI instruction leaflet…

Should you install it?

Make sure that you:

· Understand basic wiring principles and techniques

· Can interpret wiring diagrams

· Have circuit wiring experience

· Are prepared to take a few minutes to test your work, making sure that you have wired the GFCI receptacle correctly.

I can imagine the this text was carefully reviewed by a big-budget legal staff.

To what degree does this verbiage relieve the electrical manufacturer from liability?

Has anyone been able to get on the Bob Vila site in the last couple of days??

I just tried the links in this thread (above) and they worked. I then moved through a few pages, once I got there. Everything seems "solidly present on the WWW".

Al

I could not get to the (new) Bulletin Board this morning.

Bill