http://www.youwireit.org/sample.html#

I think that I see a violation, do you see it too?

Hi Joe,

Not quite as clear as I'd like on my monitor, however...

It looks as though the lower wire is white and has not be re-marked black to indentify it as a hot conductor.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't se a ground to the to the switch either.

Not clear on my monitor and vaguely worded.
Does anyone else see if the ground wire is attached to BOTH the box and ground screw on the switch?

Are you talking about the white wire?

The Most Common Mistakes Homeowners Make Doing their Own Wiring...
...as told by an electrician with Over 30 Years Experience
(8) Not using the proper replacement outlet is a problem. Always use a GFI receptacle when replacing a kitchen or bathroom receptacle. Also when replacing a garage and outdoor receptacle, use a GFI receptacle. It could save a life- maybe yours, or a loved one.

Wire Sizes, and How to Use Them
(6) The two common types of cable used around the home are type NM-B and Type UF. Type NM-B is used inside the home out of the weather in dry areas. Type UF is for use outdoors and underground direct burial cable. Both cables must be protected from damage by running along framing of the home or using conduit where the UF enters the earth and up to four feet where it can be damaged.

210.8(A) & 300.5(D)(1)I thought it was ok say replace with GFCI rec. in these areas, but what about the areas omitted? Where do they come up with the four feet to protect the wiring ?

[This message has been edited by DavidW (edited 04-28-2002).]

I see two violations. No grounding conductor which means the metal plate is not grounded (404.9(b)) and white wire is not identified as being other than grounded conductor.

yeeeeuup, an fer $39.99 youse can git's ya a tooool kit an' be a 'lectricky-an




[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 04-28-2002).]

The title of the section on the other site is "switch replacement". The code requirement to reidentify the white wire in this application first appeared in the '99 code. If the installation was made under prior codes there was no requirement to reisdentify the white. I can't tell for sure if there is a ground wire in the box or not. There is no requirement that the EGC be connected directly to the switch, it is only required to be connected to the metal box. It also could be old enough that 2 wire no ground NM cable was used. The wording on the site makes it clear to reconnect the ground wire if there is one. If there is not an EGC, some additional wording should be added for compliance with the exception to 404.9(B). This would require the use of a nonmetallic face plate when replacing a switch at an outlet without an EGC.
Don(resqcapt19)



[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 04-28-2002).]

Is Joe asking about the picture(s) or is he implying something else ?

I rather question the legal part of subscribing.

Looks like most of us saw the same items.

We could beat this thread to death though, but the issue is still one that relates to "existing" versus "new" installations.

I would recommend that the most recent rules be considered, and re-identify the white wire as a hot leg, and use the equipment bonding jumper to the switch, where is is connected to the equipment grounding conductors in the box if any do exist.

That requirement is not new, and has been a requirement in the code for quite a few code cycles, it's the issue about the metal plate that is new.

What happens when something goes wrong with the advice given, and someone gets hurt or there is some property damage?

Sparky's tools are really funny and they seem to be just what the "unqualified person" would use.

Where's the 1/8" gap around the box?

I think you could look at many repair type installations and find as many violations as you would like. If the box is grounded I dont really see a problem with this. ( Tough to see clearly) Hey Elady are you joking? Forgive me if you are but you are not required to have a 1/8 gap around the box, you may have up to that size gap if not installed in combustible materials.

Joe,
I don't think there is any requirement in the NEC to connect the EGC to the switch yoke when there is a metallic box.
Don(resqcapt19)

Don:

Probably true, but I will call 110.2 and insist that they be connected to the yoke when it has a green screw.

I believe it's a safe installation that way.

Joe,
110.2 does not apply to instllation methods, it only applies to the items being installed. While you are correct that it is a little safer if you connect the EGC to the switch yoke. The NEC clearly does not require this when there is a metallic box.
The ground screw is provided so that this section can be complied with when the switch is installed in a non metallic box.
Don(resqcapt19)

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 04-29-2002).]

Don:

Take a closer look at the link in the first entry above, and then look at the pictures of the switch where the 6/32 screws are still held onto the yoke with the "nonmetallic washer."

This will defeat the first item you mentioned, because there is no true "metal to metal" contact, so this leaves only one left, and that is to use an equipment bonding jumper connected to the swich yoke and to the equipment grounding conductors in and to the box.

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 04-29-2002).]

Joe,
There is nothing in 404.9(B) that requires direct metal to metal contact between the yoke and the box. It only requires a metal box and metal mounting screws. There is no intent by CMP 9 to require switches to be grounded like receptacles are. Look at comment 9-62 in the 98ROC

Don -

For those of us who do have an interest, what is the 98 ROC? and where do interested parties order a copy?

thanx

David

Dana,
The ROC is the "Report on Comments" and the ROP is the "Report on Proposals". These documents that are the basis of the code. All proposed changes and the code making panels' (CMP) comments and actions are published in the ROP. The ROP is sent out for public comment to interested parties and the comments and CMP action on these comments are published in the ROC. These document are available from the NFPA. The "98" is for the calendar year in which the document was published. The 98 ROP and 98 ROC are the documents for the '99 code.
Anyone who submits a proposal automatically gets a copy of the ROP and people submitting comments get a copy of the ROC. The deadline for submission of proposed changes for the 2005 code is November 1, 2002.
Don(resqcapt19)

That website is ridiculous. I can't imagine that anyone would waste good money for that "advice." Did anyone read the part about how he charges $20 for a 15 minute phone call? What happens if you don't get all the help you need after 15 minutes? Does he just hang up on you? Ridiculous!!!

I have some advice for him that's totally free: Buy a new cordless drill and jigsaw, and while your at it, get a new tape measure and screwdrivers!

BTW, if you look in picture 3, you can see what appears to be a ground wire connected to the box via a grounding clip. Sorry to have to open that can of worms.

I've seen two or three telecoms sites along similar lines: "Send $10 and I'll explain how to wire an extension phone jack."

Considering that the information in question is freely available on other sites, I wonder whether anyone is silly enough to send them money.

Sparky,
Only one thing missing from your tool kit.
Duct tape!!!!!!

Tiff

There's one other problem with that tool kit -- A drill AND a jigsaw!

We all know that the proper way to saw is to use a drill and just work it along the wood like a file!

Paddle bits! The mark of a true craftsman.

Well I dont know about anyone else but is there any teeth on that drywall saw ? It sorta looks like a butter knife.

-Mark-

Motor-T

Speaking of that, have you seen the new 'Fat Max' saw from Stanley?

I highly recommend it, as well as the Tape Measure. This saw has got some teeth!




http://www.stanleyworks.com/2001buildersshow/fatmaxtools2.htm

Bill

pauluk: We all know that the proper way to saw is to use a drill and just work it along the wood like a file!

I've done that before! Me and the GC (A buddy of mine) were at a job to move a wall, and that particular day, we had both forgotten our sawzalls. We had to remove the plate in the new doorway so I could move a cable. A DeWalt Drill and a paddle bit did the trick!

We laugh about that one from time to time...

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-03-2002).]

I signed up for an internet diy advice service just to see if it was for real. I set my own terms and prices and the site would take a chunk for themselves. Soon enough the questions came roling in. I could not believe it. Questions like "How do I install a bathroom fan". Very vague and obviously not something these people should be attempting. I didn't respond to any of the emails and I was soon "Fired" !

Bill:
Yes I got one of them they are pretty nice, if there is anything I see that can help make my job easier I get it.
My supplier sends me special ' Flyers ' to let me know when Venders are coming in so I can plan on being there. You know the old kid in the candy store type deal, I see a new tool I just gotta have it.
In fact just got my new Klein Torque Screw driver, it s really slick, and was surprised how much I have been over torquing everything, Breakers, receptacles etc.
-Mark-