I would like to get some recommendations about an indoor Spa installation. (Residential)

1. A room is being finished which will later contain a Hot Tub. Does it have to be wired as any other 'Habitable' room in the House?
(There is no point in the room that will be 5 feet away from the tub including corners)
Also, any suggestions for a Disconnect location or Lighting?

2. The room is built with metal studs. And it will have a suspended (T-bar) ceiling at about a 7 foot height (from floor). What type of bonding would you consider as the minimum required and to what lengths would you go?

3. Could the space above this ceiling contain a fixture (standard, metal) that would shine down through a plastic lens in the ceiling?

Bill

Sounds like a "hydromassage bathtub" and not a "spa", so try checking 680-70 to -73. Basically you need a GFCI for the tub, as well as for any receptacle in the room within 5', and the rest of the wiring is like any bathroom wiring..assuming this is a bathroom.

Elzappr,

This is about a Hot Tub. It is a self-contained package unit that will be wired @240v and require either a 40 or 50 amp circuit. I am familiar with their installation and have done many in the past. It is not a Bathroom.

My questions are mainly about bonding and how the room itself must be wired including lighting.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 02-12-2002).]

Sorry Bill, just was hoping to make the job simpler.

Bill,
The fact that the 5' rule cannot be maintained has me stumped @ the moment. I would vote for a 'Hot Tub' room & associated wiring here over a 'Habitable ' room's requirements as the new usage would seem to dictate that level of compliance, but that's just MO...



From 680.43........

(1) Elevation. Luminaires (lighting fixtures), except as covered in 680.43(B)(2), lighting outlets, and ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans located over the spa or hot tub or within 1.5 m (5 ft) from the inside walls of the spa or hot tub shall comply with the clearances specified in (a), (b), and (c) above the maximum water level.
(a) Without GFCI. Where no GFCI protection is provided, the mounting height shall be not less than 3.7 m (12 ft).
(b) With GFCI. Where GFCI protection is provided, the mounting height shall be permitted to be not less than 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.).
(c) Below 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.). Luminaires (lighting fixtures) meeting the requirements of item (1) or (2) and protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be permitted to be installed less than 2.3 m (7 ft 6 in.) over a spa or hot tub.
(1) Recessed luminaires (fixtures) with a glass or plastic lens, nonmetallic or electrically isolated metal trim, and suitable for use in damp locations
(2) Surface-mounted luminaires (fixtures) with a glass or plastic globe, a nonmetallic body, or a metallic body isolated from contact, and suitable for use in damp locations

I don't get the 'isolation' bit here, especially given a mettalic cieling grid and the bonding already required....


(4) All metal surfaces that are within 1.5 m (5 ft) of the inside walls of the spa or hot tub and that are not separated from the spa or hot tub area by a permanent barrier

I quess that means up too... would the lighting circuit run there be considered a bond if made to the cieling grid?

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 02-13-2002).]

Sparky,

In reference to the ceiling: I figured that it would have to be bonded in some way. By it's natural construction though, it doesn't seem that the same reference could be guaranteed without solidly connecting the metal pieces together (maybe Riveting?) I am also thinking that the ceiling should be bonded to the Metal studs. It is likely connected by screws through the perimeter, but it should be guaranteed. Overkill? I'm figuring that even though walls are sheetrocked, contact through a 'nail pop' or poorly recessed screw head is possible and little 'inquisitive fingers' may even be drawn to them.

As far as the lighting goes it's a battle trying to find something aesthetically (sp?) pleasing to the customer that will meet code. They want what they want. I would like to know all the options that would be available in this situation. Usually the first thing they want is either a Ceiling fan or Track Lighting, neither of which would be permitted in this situation.



This picture is not related to this discussion, but I think it may be a common conception of what a Hot tub room is to the uneducated consumer. There are receptacles that you cannot see all around the Tub and the fan is so low that the chains can be pulled from a seated position in the Tub. The exhaust fan in the wall is also easily within reach and has a metal cover on it. I won't go into the way that it was wired, that's a whole other story. BTW, this house was recently purchased with items you see as is.

Back to the subject.

My questions about the room wiring are in consideration of the possibility that the Tub will be removed at a later date. I recently had a new extension that would later contain a Tub, and I felt that the room (Bigger room this time) had to be wired to code with proper receptacle outlet spacing and then have the outlets in proximity blanked off with plastic covers. This way the room could revert at any time. Do you think this was necessary?

Bill

I wish everyone were as conscientious as you, Bill. Nice to consider the probable future use of the room..but not necessary..just prudent.
Man, the small dimensions have me stumped! As for bonding the ceiling grid, seems to me that you still have to run your #8 to it, and rivit all the segments. Plastic light or plastic/glass trim for recessed light would work..since you can't get the required 7'6" from the high water level.
But the room dimensions..perhaps there is a building code requirement for the size of the room? Got to measure horizontally from inside the tub at least 5' to the switch and to the receptacle..can't cheat by going to higher elevation to increase the distance. Beats me!

Elzappr,

I don't think that the Extension would've passed otherwise because it was new construction and Hot Tub would not be Installed until well after everything was completed. As a result, only the GFCI disconnect and feeders to it come under the Inspection. It gets termed "for future use" or something like that. But it had to pass as 'Habitable Space' first. I was able to convince the Inspector that it was better splicing the wires and blanking off rather than actually installing the Receptacles and counting on someone to remove them later when the Tub was installed.

As far as this situation being described here I've had 2 similar situations recently. One in a remodelled single car Garage (no metal studs or drop ceiling though) and a room being built in a Basement (with the metal studs and drop ceiling.

In the Garage instance, the Service panelboard was adjacent to the Tub location (on the same wall) and the plan was to put in a door that would open opposite from the tub that would enclose the Service panel and disconnect switch etc. This gave an effective distance (around the door) of more than 5 feet. On this job, even after telling the customer about all the restrictions for the room they had the contractor build and wire the room as they liked. They then wanted me to come in and wire the Tub. I didn't go.

Bill

I am no electrician, but ( as the owner of a home with Aluminum wiring + a fair amount of DIY wiring from previous owner ) I do enjoy reading these boards.

Regarding the spa lighting, how about a fiber optic lighting system? Would a light fixture on such a system have to adhere to the same requirements ( proximity to water, rated for use in wet areas ) as an electrically powered fixture? It would seem that the fixtures could be safely mounted directly above the hot tub.

Check out www.nitenday.com for some examples of fiber optic lighting.

Here is another source for fiber optic ( with a nicer web site ). http://www.luciferlighting.com

Also, how about an air switch to control the light? If using fiber optic lighting, the light source will be outside the room. Is it acceptable to have it controlled by an air switch inside the room?

[This message has been edited by wageoghe (edited 02-14-2002).]

wageoghe,

That might be a way to go in situations like this. Good Thinking! The fixtures would still have to be Non-metallic though I believe. Any Inspector rulings on that?

Bill

wageoghe
thanks for the links. we should have thought of FO lights, as it's been discussed with outdoor pools.

Bill,
I'm having trouble finding any specific distances in 680 ( 02') from spa to service panel....

Sparky,

I feel that the Circiuit Breakers should at least be treated as switches are. The door also serves to give a 5 foot distance from the Tub to the required disconnect switch. (around the open door) Not a perfect solution, but workable? What do you think?

Bill

Bill, I fully agree. I'd just like to justify it
( remember our panel in the shower thread)

The code is the code, you have to abide by it because you are an electrician, homeowner can say whatever they want to, they get what they get. They can do whatever they please after you leave and the AHJ is gone. The bonding issue is a little deeper, if you hit one spot, typically all will show continuity, grab a hot and the grid just to feel safe for fun. You get 5' from the edge, that is if you are in the room, outside the room is not a part of the room, common sense is the reach test if the tub is located to see if it is possible to do the twister to reach around a door opening to the switch.
Aroom to be finished later typically is just another addition, set it in mind of what is going to happen later, yet make it so those openings can be blanked, and just killed by a splice at a nice place as that switch.
The lighting issue is mandated in the code for your situation, here's the water, here's the fixture. Is it easy enough for some intoxicated folks to change that bulb standing on the side of the tub in the wet bathing suit, or going out to the garage/shed for a fibreglass ladder? And hell, we can load the whole room if we want.
And when they call back to finish a unsafe tub room in the way they wanted-electrocution hazard, you can nicely turn down the oppurtunity.