hi,
what is the best wiring method for a horse barn? weatherproof everything?

how about the overhead service drop from the main load center on the pole to the barn? doesnt this have to be a quadraplex cable? (insulated neutral)..

what about grounding at the pole with no water line available? two ground rods? connected together or seperately?

thanks

frodo

Hi frodo

yes
yes
not sure what U mean there..?

obviously, you've gone thru 547..

As a horse dad add..crib-proof & tantrum-proof, double it for a pony.

hi,
i installed a 200A Loadcenter on a pole. from the loadcenter off a 40A double pole using #4 quadraplex. they go through a 1 1/4 emt out a weather head over to a barn into a 125 loadcenter with a 40A main. i am bringing a quadraplex over for two reasons; 1) it brings my ground over from the pole. 2) i get an insulated neutral. i drove a single ground rod at the barn.

what do I need at the service for grounding? there is no water line. i figured i would drive two ground rods.

will this satisfy the code?

if i use two ground rods 6 feet apart, do the rods have to be tied together or have a seperate run of #6 from each rod?

i am planning on using emt and fs boxes to install switches and lighting in the barn. this is the best method i can think of.

thanks for all the input..

frodo

See Article 547 in the NEC.

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 02-04-2002).]

hi,
thanks for all the input, its good to have a plce to go to for friendly discussions and advice.

-regards

frodo

May I suggest PVC FS boxes and PVC rigid pipe (sched 80 where needed) rather than ferrous metal?

Corrosive environment, No?

Frodo Wrote:
"i installed a 200A Loadcenter on a pole. from the loadcenter off a 40A double pole using #4 quadraplex. they go through a 1 1/4 emt out a weather head over to a barn into a 125 loadcenter with a 40A main. i am bringing a quadraplex over for two reasons; 1) it brings my ground over from the pole. 2) i get an insulated neutral. i drove a single ground rod at the barn.

what do I need at the service for grounding? there is no water line. i figured i would drive two ground rods.

will this satisfy the code?

if i use two ground rods 6 feet apart, do the rods have to be tied together or have a seperate run of #6 from each rod?

i am planning on using emt and fs boxes to install switches and lighting in the barn. this is the best method i can think of.

thanks for all the input.."

Frodo
Which edition of the NEC are you working with in your area? That effects the answers a lot. For 1996 you are fine so far, for 1999 you need two rods at each building. In either case you can run one Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) to the first ground rod through the acorn clamp and on to the acorn clamp of the second ground rod. If you are using solid state controlled equipment in any of these buildings then you may want to get a lot more fussy about the grounding then the code requires. If you have a drilled water well within reach of any of these buildings consider running a GEC to it.
--
Tom

hi,
my area recognizes the 1999 code. on a seperate building, detached garage etc., where no ground conductor has been run then two ground rods may be required but where a egc is run with the conductors do you still need two ground rods?

i always run a ground conductor from the service to the building or detached garage to keep from having to drive two rods.

i have passed a few inspections with only one ground rod at the detached garage or building as long as i have the ground run with the feeder.

thanks

frodo

hi,
pvc is a consideration. is it cost effective vs emt?

-regards

frodo

I show 1/2" EMT @ $0.16 per foot and 1/2" PVC at $0.18, plus the fittings are a little more expensive and the PVC conduit requires 3.3 times as many straps, but in the long run, it will hold up to the test of time. EMT will eventually rust out in an agricutural environment.

Care must be taken to provide for temperature expansion and contraction of the PVC pipe, using "frosties" or other expansion type joints.

frodo;
the barns i've done have only the 'luminare' in the actual stall. Everything else i try and talk into the adjacent feed,tack room.

This , not only for code related & economic reasons, but also considering a 1200lb orney animal ( i gotta lotta holes kicked in my barn )

So the following would be my focus....( 2002)

Also note the latest wiring methods...


Joe,
Does NFPA 150 say, or elude, to boardering a horse(s) ?, as this is common practice...

Virgil's right about the PVC80.
Be sure to run everything outside of the stalls away from the horses as high and tight to the structure as you can. Any piece of pipe that can be used for hanging tack will be, and any spot that a rope could catch on will catch one eventually. Try to stay away from any wood that will have to be replaced due to cribbing or rotting.
Put a switch for the lights in an easily accessible spot far away from the horses for use in those "night call" emergencies. Use enough lights that come on instantly (Qz, etc) that you can see before you go in. HID's are Ok for general lighting, but take too long to start in an emergency.
Try to mount your lights in a way that vibrations from the stalls won't be transmitted to the lamps or you'll be replacing lamps way too often.
Don't forget ceiling mounted recps. for fly zappers. If there's a chute that will be used for doctoring/grooming, put a GFI recp close enough to plug in clippers, etc.
(And if it's a stud pony, quadruple the "crib/tantrum factor" ) All horses are on self destruct mode 24/7, whether they know it or not.

hi,
thanks for the replies. i am glad i asked now! i am still wondering about the grounding?

i have an egc run from the service to the barn. is one ground rod not acceptable?

anybody know of a good cheap light fixture?

-regards

frodo

OK Here we go. 250-32
As many ground rods as it takes to get <25 ohms.
PS drive another for future use by fence chargers.
A horse barn w/o water?? Is all the water system nonmetallic?

A grounding electrode system is required and if it is a driven rod it must meet the 25 ohm rule in 250-56. If you don't test it or if it has more than 25 ohms, then you must have 2 rods.
Don(resqcapt19)

Don,
Does that mean that if 2 grd rods still read > 25 ohms it's OK?? (I don't know the answer)

hi,
thanks for the replies.

the distribution point on the site (pole with 200A MAIN Loadcenter)& has two ground rods bonded together, then from the panelboard over to the barn i ran a #4 quadraplex being fed from a 40A double pole to a 40A double pole in a 12 ckt loadcenter, nema 3r.

i did not bond the neutral to the ground at the barn and i provided seperate terminals for neutrals and grounds in the panel, i drove one ground rod.

i was sure that this met the requirement.

i dont mind driving another rod but i never have in the past.

the only water at the site is about 150 feet from the barn so it's not really usable.

thanks again for the replies

-regards

frodo

[This message has been edited by frodo (edited 01-12-2002).]

electure
Yes, if the first rod tests greater than 25 ohms, all you are required to do is to add one more rod at least 6' away from the first one. In some areas the contractor automatically puts in 2 rods as it is cheaper than actually owing the tester and testing each installation.
Don(resqcapt19)

hi,
i will put my meter on the rod and test it.

the soil is wet and loamy and a lot of rock down around 10-12 feet or so..

i live and work just outside of louisville, ky.

if the rod at the barn reads greater than 25 OHMS a second rod will be driven. then you must bond the two together and hope for a reading less than 25 OHMS or drive another rod and another unitll you get it right?

i call it overkill, but nothing is more important than a good ground!

thanks

frodo

hi,
need some feedback on installing UF cable in a horse barn? i thought i would mount a pvc j-box up high and drop a PVC SCH 80 down to a few t's and set two 2 gang plastic fs boxes and a single gang plastic fs box for my switching. i have some weatheproof switch covers (2-gang, and 1-gang)i want to use there. i plan to mount the switches in one location for each stall and for the hay loft. the customer requested this.

to feed the light fixtures i thought i could run UF cable from the J-Box to single gang fs boxes using UF connectors (approved for wet location), i plan to mount a 300W quartz floodlight in each stall as high as i can get it. the lights are listed for wet locations and for use outdoors.

i feel a horse barn is outdoors as far as location goes.

i thought about piping the whole thing but it seems like UF would be the most economical way to go.

i will run a 1/2 pvc fom my panel to the j-box to feed the lights and recepts. again as high as possible.

any replies are appreciated

-regards

frodo

[This message has been edited by frodo (edited 01-13-2002).]

Kind of off the Q, but I once got a roll of "Barn Cable" (marked as such) that the Crazy Horse Trader picked up @ the auction. It was a 2 wire #12, rubber coated. (I used it for a remote telephone bell just to get rid of it)
Anybody ever see this old stuff?

Here in our area, 2 ground rods would be required. One at the pole and one at the barn. If either of them reads over 25 Ohms when tested, then a second one is driven at that location. Ground rods are basically for lightning protection. Your 'ground' is being supplied with the power companies feed via the grounded(neutral) conductor.