ECN Forum
Posted By: electure Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/19/01 12:31 PM
In '99, it became a requirement to paint or permanently reidentify white conductors of multiconductor cables that are being used on switch loops as hots.
I think the "permanent" part of this excludes the use of tape.
Has anybody got a good way to do this?
I've been using a "paint pen" (like an enamel felt marker), and the wire's all sticky unless it's left for days and days.
Posted By: George Corron Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/19/01 12:45 PM
In VA, we have been letting all use tape. It does not normally fall off, making it permanent as far as we are concerned.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/19/01 12:56 PM
If your area won't accept tape, how about a short length of PVC sleeving?

We often use red sleeves over blacks (normally neutral) here to identify switch loops. It's permanent in the sense that it won't come off unless you cut it or disconnect the wire from the switch terminal.
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/19/01 03:25 PM
Use some shrink tube of different colors.

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 12-24-2001).]
Posted By: ggardiner Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/19/01 03:47 PM
We have been using colored heat shrink on our orders going into the U.S. and it has been accepted through all the jurisdictions it doesn't come off without cutting the wire.
Posted By: electure Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/21/01 12:45 PM
Thanks!
The heat shrink sounds like it would be a very good way for us to go.
The 3 wire cable (BX?) would be cost prohibitive for us. We do lots of offices, and unless the jobs require it (some occupancy sensors need the neut), the added $ would add up to quite a sizeable sum.(I already got shot down suggesting this)
Posted By: amp-man Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/23/01 03:49 AM
Here's an idea that I heard on another BBS.

"Get a black Magic Marker (the mongo, chisel-point kind) and drill a hole through the tip. To re-identify a white, just run it through the hole. Faster than taping-and permanent."

I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds good to me.

Cliff
Posted By: sparky Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/23/01 11:51 AM
I just gotta ask,
if the white & black are twisted together & wirenutted why is there the need for this??
Posted By: Scott35 Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/23/01 01:19 PM
Steve,

Because the Electrons will be confused by the change in Insulation color! [Linked Image]
That will make them stop moving.

I'm sorry, just couldn't resist that one!

Can't remember who it was that said it first [posted the response about Electrons being confused by the color of insulation], but it was - and still is - FUNNY!!!

Scott SET
Posted By: sparky Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/23/01 05:35 PM
LOL!
Scott,
one of us posters should collect all these goodies for a 'NEC for Dummies" book

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Nick Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/23/01 06:42 PM
Scott, that was Here

[This message has been edited by Nick (edited 12-23-2001).]
Posted By: motor-T Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/24/01 12:15 AM
Ever since that change came into effect I have been using one of those Magnum 44 markers they are black and about 1 inch in diameter I thought this was great but I never thought of drilling a hole through it, what a great idea.
I just dont like the idea of running a three conductor and wasting one of them to a switch especially in todays competive market.
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/24/01 01:06 AM
How do we know that the solvents in the paints and markers don't cause damage to the insulating properties of the insulation?
Don(resqcapt19)
Posted By: electure Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/24/01 01:57 PM
Don,
This is another thing that I wondered as well. The nylon on THHN/THWN doesn't seem to be affected as evidenced by the fact that enamel or felt marker will rub or flake right off leaving the conductor as if it's never been marked (usually transferred to the electrician's finger, the device, the wall, etc)
There are solvents in the felt-pen that smell pretty bad, and would soak right into a THW or the like.
Would this degrade the insulation?
Posted By: motor-T Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/24/01 04:46 PM
Resqcapt19
Thats an excellant question. The reason I chose the markers seemed to be a quick solution and its permanent. In my haste I never thought to ask the most important question, what would this stuff do to the insulation. I just assumed the insulation would be impervious to any type of solvent not even that it will but there is always that chance it could and the marker is certainly not listed for that purpose.
However it does say to paint it or some other means of permanent reidentification, Iam going back to the tape method, its never failed before.
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/24/01 05:33 PM
I've always used tape for color ID. I guess it really isn't "permanent" but I've never seen in a real problem. Besides if we are really "qualified" electricians we should be able to identify the purpose of the conductor by looking at where it is terminated.
Don(resqcapt19)
Posted By: Elzappr Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/25/01 05:10 AM
At Intel we used heat shrink. On other jobs I've used insulation from one size larger wire (scrap #10 insulation covering the #12 insulation) whenever it was handy..but be sure to use an unmarked length. This works well in repair situations when the old insulation is heat degraded..like in drum type ceiling lights which bake the wiring.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/25/01 07:25 PM
I would've thought that properly applied tape should be acceptable. And if tape marking a switch loop does eventually come off, anyone qualified enough to be poking around in there should be able to spot what's going on anyway.
Posted By: motor-T Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/26/01 04:07 PM
Paul;
That is exactly how we got to that point in the code, where it became mandatory to remark the hot leg to a switch. An unqualified person got into a switch box and assumed the white was hot; ergo a change was submitted to reidentify all white switch conductors, and by some type of permanent means. Our inspectors have accepted the tape method as a means of reidentification.
Posted By: pauluk Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/26/01 06:42 PM
Er, you lost me there a little.

Wouldn't an unqualified person who knew just a little about color coding be more likely to assume that a white wire is neutral?
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Wire Paint &200-7 - 12/26/01 06:44 PM
I just want to point out that nothing is permanent...

So we're left to use 3 wire and nut off the white?
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