I go regularly to buildings where the electrical rooms are kept locked, and the tenants don't have a key (both multi and single tenants). It's not unusual to have to drive 5 or 10 miles to pick up a key from the management company.
Although this is a pain in the neck, my concern is more with the tenant not being able to shut off the power in the event of an emergency.
I don't think that this constitutes "ready access", and the tenants should be able to get in the rooms immediately on a 24-7 basis.
What do you think???

I agree with you on the ready access. Seems that a building supt should have one or there should be some means to provide a key. Can also see why the tenants don't have access due to vandalism, etc, though.

electure;
I agree these duplexes need acccess to the service panels. A lot of times these Landlords take an old single home and convert them to two apartments and the only access is through the downstairs appartment.
Our inspectors always insists that the tenants have access to their panels.
I had a service call where the LL called and said that one of her tenants didnt have power, when I got there, there were 3 meters outside,one of them had a yellow tag meaning a disconnect, one was for the house panel the other two for the two apartments, the POCO had shut one of the tenants power off but half of her apartment was on the house meter some of these places are accidents waiting to happen and the only access to the three panels was through the downstairs appartment.

I see the landlord's point of view, but for safety's sake I feel that there must be easy access to shut off power in an emergency.

I had a demonstration of this sort of thing years ago at a girlfriend's house.
This was a general store with apartment above, and all the main switchgear was down in the shop. Said girlfriend's younger sister started to run a bath, then went off in the car taking all the shop keys with her. When we realized something was wrong, water had already flooded the hallway and was cascading through lights and fittings in the hallway below giving an ample demonstration of why water and electricity don't mix too well. I had to smash the window in the shop door to get to the main switch.

Younger sister was not too popular with Mom and Dad that night!

Is there a Fireman here that will comment??

I should have mentioned that these aren't duplexes or houses, but large commercial buildings with services of up to 2000 or 3000 amps of 480V power.
They contain many more possible sources of trouble, and the trouble could be of a much greater magnitude. (I've actually taken to telling tenants how to open Utility Co. and Fire Dept lockboxes with the tire irons from their cars for emergency access to keys).
Any complaints to Mgmt Co's, even with Code references, have had the same result. They deem their 9-5 M-F remote location as "ready access"

Scott,
does your area use knox-boxes?

Knox-boxes are pretty common out here in SO CA.

well,
911 would mitigate any entry problems.

Sparky:
Exccuse my ignorance but what is a ' Knox-box'?

Fire Dept/Police Dept Lock Box, an outside box that contains a set of keys to the building for the FD/PD. (Same as a concrete encased realtor's keybox). They're opened by a FD/PD round key, and in many jurisidictions they're a requirement.



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-17-2001).]

Scott,

I also know where you are coming from on this one!

On a certain Multifloor Building in County Of LA [Westwood Village], The PD and FD have their own Lock Box for the Service Equipment Room. Note that the Lock Box is located next to the Service Equipment Room's door.
What's really great is that the Service Equipment Room - AND The Emergency Power [UPS] Room are located in the Basement, inside of a Health Club [not a 24 hour one either ].

To know where they are located is done with Crystal Balls or Tarot Cards [joke]. To get in the Health Club, one must first contact the on-site Security guard[s] - page them and wait for 20 minutes!

The Tenant we were doing a major remodel for in said building had no clue where the services were, let alone an A/C subpanel, which was used for all of their HVAC Equipment!!!

After the project was completed, I drew up a very extensive As-Built for this Tenant! Showed exactly where all the related equipment was at and how to get to it [through the giant maze of walls, stairwells, elevators and tenant spaces!].

This was a 15 floor building, with 34,5 KV primary voltage, 480 V 3 phase 3 wire Delta, 480Y/277 3 phase 4 wire Wye and 120/240 3 phase 4 wire Delta Secondaries. Services ranged from 1000 amps for the 120/240 Delta, to 4000 amps for the 480Y, to 6000 amps for the 480 Delta.

Scott SET

sparky wrote: <<Is there a Fireman here that will comment??>>

As a fire fighter I have an array of forcible entry tools and I have been thoroughly trained in their use. So one way or the other I will reach the service equipment if I need to. If I had my way though all buildings would have an exterior disconnect or knox box access to the electrical and other utilities. The Southern Building Code required external disconnects for power to single family homes at one time. I have no idea if it still does.
--
Tom

Thanks Tom.
so the bottom line is install a Knox box
(how much can they really be?) or witness what a haligan & flat head axe can do in a hurry.

"Code" here doesn't specify any sort of exterior disconnect or access in general, but it does require an external "Fireman's switch" for high voltage neon lighting on commercial buildings (or any other similar type of exterior HV discharge lighting).

There are regs. as to the min. & max. height, labeling, etc. and the switch is a side lever which can be operated by a hook stick, or pushed to the off position (up) with any other convenient stick or rod.

Do you have any similar disconnect requirements for HV lighting?

Paul,
All signs and outline lighting are required to have a disconnecting means within sight.

With my highest respect for the Firemen, I was in one of these buildings when someone smelled smoke. (Of course they came right to me and asked me "what I'd done").
A secretary called the FD, and it was about 15 min before they arrived (8 Trucks!).
In a major earthquake, their resources could be all tied up.
Fortunately, the problem was just an A/C blower motor that cooked. I was in that bldg again the other day, and that's what started me on this "cyber tantrum". The landlord still won't let them have a key.
So, is it a violation or not???

BTW, 'lest any "unethical" types be reading, Knox Boxes as we install them have alarm contacts. (That's why the electrician installs them)

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-18-2001).]

I would make said landlord understand his liability in the event of an incident in his absence.

sparky Wrote
"Thanks Tom.
so the bottom line is install a Knox box
(how much can they really be?) or witness what a halligan & flat head axe can do in a hurry. <https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/eek.gif>"

The boxes cost between one and three hundred installed depending on the model and the wall in or on which it is installed. The repair of an adams right angle dead bolt lock and the replacement of the glass in the door cost more and yet it took some building owners three to five sets of doors to realize that having a "man on the way" would not keep us from forcing the doors to reach the fire or the utility rooms. One company even went to court to try to make us pay for the doors. The judge read the state disaster act from the bench and warned the plaintiffs attorney never to bring a similar claim into her court again.
--
Tom

Thanks Tom,
We needed the 'word' from a trade
( firefighter) professional in this thread