Had an inspection for a mobile home service today, (doublewide) I passed and my untarnished, perfect history of passing inspections has not been harmed...however, now the rest of the story...

Had one heck of a time with the G-rods. I use a post-driver type tool, a pipe with handles and weight on top... Then drive the last few feet with a sledge.

This home was 20 ft from a creek, with requisite rocks and stones, some the size of automobiles. I had considered the horizontal 24" ditch approach, but one dig with the shovel proved that I'd have to dig with a jack hammer. More rocks than soil...no exaggeration.

After three hours of sledge-hammering the rod at a rate of 50 strokes per inch, I still had 8 inches above the ground after it hit solid.

On to the second rod for a change of pace...ha ha ...

After an hour and pulling it up after two failed locations, I got it 6 ft down until solid and couldn't pull it out. I beat alternately on each rod for another hour until giving up. My hands are blistered and sore beyond belief, but I can still type...

I won't go into what I did yet, but the inspector did make me expose the rods so he could be assured they existed, and I started to sweat. I told him that if I had left them exposed to begin with, there would be less than 8' in contact with the earth, so I was catch 22.

He was real nice about everything, no power trips or nothing. We discussed code issues and bulletin boards while waiting for the cu$tomer to show.

BTW, the inspector wasn't my usual one, this guy just may check out ECN, he sounded excited about it...

At any rate, I literally did the best I could without hiring a demolition crew with TNT for the GE's.

What it boils down to is this...(gasp)

Are we allowed to bend ground rods?


Also:
I was in violation of 347-8(b) in regards to my 2" PVC being hung every 8'due to the only attachment points available, unless I ran bolts through the floor. Guess I could have spent a day framing attachment points... The inspector either didn't notice or was so pleased to actually see line and load in the right places that it seemed great in perspective... He told me the line and load thing has been a problem with DIYer's.

At any rate, the big question is with bending ground rods. The AHJ's opinion was that one could bend it at a 45, or bend at a 90 if it is 24" deep.

Can we heat it up to bend that springy sucker, or would that compromise the integrity somehow?

Please keep in mind that rods coming back up out of the ground three feet from the driving point has occurred around here do to the soil conditions... Tom can tell ya...

You should be allowed to bore the hole 1" wide by 100" deep with a machine, fill the hole with 7' of Portland and lime slurry, poke the rod into that a few times to make sure there is no air pocket, hook it up, and walk away. A concrete encased electrode...

I like Dsparks idea.

If there is that much rock, the rods are probably next to useless anyhow.

There are places in this state that the utility companies bore into a rock laying on the ground & attach their guy wires to it. Of course, the rock is at least the size of a truck.

I'm working on a job now where they had to use a ram hoe (tracked jackhammer) to pound out a trench to pour concrete into for a footer. I think they could have just drilled holes for re-bar dowels & poured the slab right on grade. I wisely used the trench for the 6" water line & laid my 2 rods in it.

Virgil, you evidently had the courtesy to peen off the saw marks. After all, WV is the home of the 6' ground rod.

Tom

I have less than adequate working capital even if I knew where to get such a machine.

I've also considered using a ground plate, but again I don't know where to get one.

To put things in perspective, think about it this way, Dspark...

You're on a desert island... nothing but you, two ground rods, a shovel, and a sledge hammer. The rescue ship won't return until both rods are out of sight, you hit bedrock at 4 ft.

What do you do, assuming you have nothing else to work with? And you cannot go home or eat until the job is done?

No, I didn't cut them, I bent them until all 8 ft was in contact with the soil... I hope the inspector won't be upset for my tattling on him for passing me, if he visits ECN... I was completely honest with him about what I did after he asked me to expose them.

However, the dimples were completely gone from the honest hammering I did.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-11-2001).]

Tom,
Just how much extra cost should I factor for such a project?... I can see my $750 bid doubling quickly...

Do I have to rent a well-driller?

Mabey the people in Berkely Springs are considereably wealthier than in Hinton...

No one is going to pay even $1000 for a 200A service around here...

Boy it sure sounds like WV is boney! As to the original Q... 8' of contact is 8', bent or not. As one who's blister collection has also been gained via the G-rod method, i can sympathize. can i substitue the Sledge hammer for a Hilti & a 6-pack on the island?
lol....
Personally, if it is a new install not a service upgrade i am in favor of 250-50(c) , a UFER, which means i need to be there during the site work.

It's a trailer folks!!!

You know, trailer trash... poor folk... people making minimum wage... living on less than $1000 a month type people...

Can they really afford a UFER?!?!?

BTW, the mobile home was used, not new, so it wasn't even a new trailer... these folks are poor (and I am too!) !!!

The anaolgy wasn't far off... I was dead broke with an 1/8 tank of gas in my truck... I had to finish the job to atleast get reimbursed for the materials if nothing else. I couldn't even pay the inspector, and had to tell the cu$tomer to pay him for me and I'd deduct the amount from her bill.... How the heck was I suppose to line up a well driller and ready-mix with no money?!?!?

Besides, it was a $600 job including materials... If I only take on million dollar jobs, I won't have any work...

Sorry to go off, but some of you guys sound like you have infinite working capital...

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-12-2001).]

I think I would have opted for the plates per 250-52(d). That's what we designed for on an aluminum recycling plant in Tenn. where the rock was 3-4 feet below the surface. After the test were performed, the plates provided as low a resistance as a ground rod system does in other areas of the country.

I use a black and decker macho big hammer drill to put my ground rods in.I dont even own a sledge hammer.

>a well driller and ready-mix
You just need a large drill to make the hole. I was suggesting just a 1" diameter not 8". Actually, 6 to 8" diameter at the top foot or so would make a good funnel. If you mix the cement to a consistency of almost water, you could probably pour it down a 0.75" hole.

And the Portland and anhydrous lime you mix yourself in a tub or bucket, real runny, and pour it down the hole. The materials cost a couple bucks. Its not like it would take a full bag. Run the rod up and down in it to get out the air.

You could have been doing something less tiring, like building a drill press on your back bumper.

I'm thinking that you could build this thing out of stuff you already own.

I feel bad for you. That's why I was thinking about what I would do if I were faced with that very often.

You would have gotten the same $700 whether you spent an hour drilling or 6 hours sledging, yes?
I figure you lost $110. If you lose $100 a week, that's $5000 a year, not to mention the aches and pains.

Say, if I built one for you, would you be willing to split the profit and pay me $25 per hole?

>the plates provided as low a resistance as a ground rod system does in other areas of the country.
Even during a long period of dry weather?

Put the plate near where the kitchen sink drains from the trailer.

Virgil;
the sparky who can meet the MINIMUM nec, not over, not under... eats best.
read 250-50, as well as 250-52
( first sentence)

a roll of #4 bare(50') is cheaper than 4 G-rods, as well as a better ohmic value not to mention your time pounding...



Now if i could only convince the utility of this....

Virgil,

As long as there are all those carpenters & handymen doing electrical work, you can count on being underpaid. When you pass your inspectors test (think positive) you'll have a chance to do something about it. An acquaintance of mine in Grafton put 3 out of business in the first month. They decided it was too much trouble to do it right.

Your rate of pay will also increase with time as you establish your reputation. Every time I raise my rates, I will lose a little business. The ones I'm losing are usually only looking for a low price anyhow & usually could care less about quality & safety.

You'll get there, you just gotta believe.

Tom

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 07-12-2001).]

Sparky,
We allow bent ground rods all the time at Dulles Airport. We have bedrock here too !!! Why do we allow it? because ground rods "stink" as grounds, and we use the Ufer for literally everything, supplemented by the rods. We do require that the entire thing be under ground though. Ground ring ??? probably cheaper, but I agree that a few extensions on a Hilti (Bosch ? Milwaukee?) would be the way to go, used that myself for the 12 years I was in business as well as the 20 years prior I worked for other people, the cash outlay may be somewhat steep originally, but Lord the time and effort saved makes it well worth it. I also agree that something may be built from materials laying around but then some irritating inspector would ask for UL listing, OSHA rating,... etc.. Come on guys, don't pretend you wouldn't.

Dspark,

Sorry, once again I tend to "exagerate for clarity" which I sometimes find necessary in this sensationalized world...


How do I build such a drill?

To rant even more:
Guess I really need to shell out the dough for a Hilti... My jigsaw and Sawzall both died in the same week, and I haven't replaced them yet. I did buy a B&D Cordless Jig, but it ain't "all that". My Bosch in-line jig was going to cost $120 to fix... It was $150 new. Crazy. I also want the DeWalt 18V cordless sawzall, hammer drill, light and trim saw kit for $450 that Lowes has... The 36V Rotary Hammer would be nice too... I don't have a generator either...

I need a really big paying job, that requires few tools...

Steve,

A 30" deep ditch the 190' circumference of the trailer would have been a horrible experience. But I have considered ground rings where a trencher was available...

I was pulling up melon sized boulders just burying the #4 GEC at 6"...

Remember, just a shovel, a sledge, and oh yeah, I had a spud bar too.

To be completely painfully honest, I'd say I've had to bend about 90% of the rods I've installed... I've never cut a rod, though.
I've never installed anything but ground rods, mainly because of the lack of training for any other method.

However, I'll try to be more open minded...

>How do I build such a drill?
I would have to come poke around your garage and see what you have.

You need a vertical frame. Build it from 1" black steel pipe. Put mounts on your truck bumper so you can stand up the 10' rails at the job site.

What will we use for power? Get a 2 cycle lawn mower engine (that runs). Cheap and powerful.

Put on a square horse trailer hitch box (the female end) in line and perfectly centered on the shaft in place of a blade. This is your chuck.

Get several sections of 1" rebar, say 3' (to start the hole), 5', 7.7', and 10' long.

Weld male trailer hitch ends onto them.
Grind deep spiral grooves into the bottoms.
Clean up the spirals on the rebar to auger the dust better.

Mount guides on the engine so it follows the frame rails and some that you can grab to raise and lower the engine. You might even make an easy way to apply your body weight as downdraft on the engine platform.

Hitch the short rebar auger in.

Start your engine. Drill away. Stop engine. Pull out, switch to the longer auger. Repeat until hole is 100" deep or whatever you want.

You can improve the design by putting a titanium bit on the end, using a real rock auger, adding a rack and pinion crank or a rope and pulley, a lock to hold the engine up,... You could use a reinforced mud mixer stirrer as an auger for the first 6" inches to make that funnel.


Being that you are a one man band, I doubt you'll be complaining to OSHA... unless, did you complain about all that sledgehammering work?

DSpark,
you might be on to something here...i'm a sucker for inovation.

George,
welcome!..for sure- G-rods are all for show,
My Q is, does a UFER being 250-50(c) installed with regards to 250-52
Where none of the electrodes specified in 250-50 is avaialble, one or more of the electrodes specified in (b) through (d) shall be used
mean that i can forgo the rods? I mean to implement this on new foundation pours only of course.

Q--
What if i saw off rods and simply pound the cut piece in and make onto them, 8' of earth contact is 8' right?

A couple of thoughts here, guys. I feel for virgil, since I too have had my bad rod days.

In all the books about grounding, it shows concentric rings around the rod, largest at the top, smallest at the bottom. If you bend the rod, you take away the rings from that section, because the rings now overlap. This reduces the effectivness of the rod. This is the reason for not installing two rods within 6-8' of each other.

A 1" hole 100" deep, filled with concrete is not a concrete encased electrode. It is a rod covered by concrete. And isn't the rod suppossed to be in direct contact with "soil"? Look at 250-50(c) for the requirements for a concrete-encased electrode (covered by 2" of concrete, located within or near the bottom of a foundation, etc...)

Hopefully this grounding electrode that you are installing is for the service only, and not for the mobile home. You do not install an electrode at the home.

I agree with the others that a rod is almost useless, so why sweat it? Rod won't go straight down, try 45 degrees. Still won't go, lay in trench. Can't get a 2' trench? Then you are going to have other problems than your ground rod install, such as burial depth of the feeder, tie downs for the home, etc..

If this service is built on a pole that the utility has installed, just attach to the pole ground that they put in, which is probably a butt ground. Use irreversible crimps.

Other than this, I'm afraid I can't give you anymore ideas.

Rick Miell

Rick,
The rod, re-bar or copper cable for a concrete encased electrode should not be in direct contact with the earth. Only the concrete must be in direct contact with the earth. Metal parts that have direct contact with both the earth and concrete at the same loaction often suffer sever corrosion. "Encased" means to me that it must be covered on all sides.
Don(resqcapt19)

I once fabricated a mount to attach my Hilti core drill to the receiver hitch on my van. It worked great for holes in a line. I just took the base off my mast and bolted the mast to the hitch adapter. I did not have a vacuum hold down unit and anchors are time and money. I traded the core drill for a nice 64 Valient and still have the rig for the van hitch. Anybody around Dallas need some EMT, connectors, couplings, wire, etc? I'm looking for 69 Camaro and 77 Gran Prix parts. Also have a nice 71 Tbird I don't need>

[This message has been edited by gpowellpec (edited 07-13-2001).]

>A 1" hole 100" deep, filled with concrete is not a concrete encased electrode.
Yeah, but it has to be at least as good as a rod driven into rock.

>isn't the rod suppossed to be in direct contact with "soil"?
Say, '66, you'll have to drive your ground rods in a different state. They have to be in soil -- not rock!

>try 45 degrees.
Right. It's a little harder to hit; but easier to get up to. But I never drive a rod straight. If I'm on a slope, I angle with the slope.

Hmmm... Did I mention that it was a double wide? The GEC is connected at the disco which is mounted on the side of the double-wide trailer. Since everything is bonded I'm not sure what I'm grounding nor what you mean...

The GEC is not going to the panel in the trailer...

How do I split up the grounds and keep compliant in both theory and code? Maybe I just don't understand what you meant.

Dspark,

Wouldn't some sort of gear reduction be needed? I can't imagine myself standing on a homemade rig with homemade drill bits spinning at 3600 RPM (assuming 4 stroke, 6000+ RPM for a 2 stroker) and slinging dirt, rocks and other debris everywhere.

My guess is that a post hole driller could be converted with bit extensions or something.



Why not just fill the hole back up with dirt and/or mud?

It's my personal opinon, and no one needs subscribe to it, that Art 550 is probably the most lobbied code in the NEC. This is where terminology intent and theory are fairly convoluted by such influences. 250-32(b) is one casualty of this. Any here who would like to discuss this in length please start a new thread.

Virgil;
today, i took 2 broken sledge heads cause my aim with G-rods is about as good as with my 380 to a welder. He welded on 3/4" rigid. There is a 3' section connected at the head, and a threaded coupling to place anothe 3' section.The obvious intent being a sectional sliding hammer. This $$$ a new welder run insert Beatles Taxman here and a few brews.
I'll inform this thread of any potential cure for blisters

>Wouldn't some sort of gear reduction be needed?
Perhaps. Believe it or not, 3600 RPM is about 11 MPH, and even 6000 RPM gives 18 MPH. It is not real wicked.

>Why not just fill the hole back up with dirt and/or mud?
Where are you going to get it?

Seriously, I think that driving a ground rod is supposed to make a tighter soil contact. I was going to compensate with mortar and lime which would supply more free electrons, retain moisture, and not leach away.
You could dope the mortar with something else too, a little copper sulfate or something... you know, just so you could say that the end product was at least equal to a driven rod.


[This message has been edited by Dspark (edited 07-15-2001).]

>He welded on 3/4" rigid.
That's a great idea.

>There is a 3' section connected at the head
I guess you still have the drive the last 3' with a regular the sledge. Did you get a tee handle on it too?


And you know not to try to use your sliding hammer as a sledge now, right?

Now wait a minute there Dspark, I'm pretty slick when it comes to mechanical things (anyone want to talk aerodynamic theories? Coefficients of drag, Cd 's of lift, Reynolds numbers, gyroscopic precession, etc.?.. I can prove that I know what I'm talking about here...)

Any wobble at all at the end of the bit before it strikes the ground will cause it to self destruct at those RPM's when you're dealing with this kind of mass.
Especially if the point of attachment is a swivel point instead of a solid attachment.

PTO's are typically 540 RPM and post hole diggers are typically a good 4:1 reduced from that. I've seen post hole diggers start to wobble and begin the self-destruct routine even at those low RPM's. Makes a lot of noise...

How did you determine MPH?

MPH compared to RPM is a little vague without something to relate them... Are you measuring the stroke of the piston? The outer circumference of the bit? It has little consequence on the energy built up it a spinning mass. Especially a heavy one.

The spinning mass would cause a gyro effect and everything would be fine until a force acts upon it, (like moving it towards the ground) then this thing called gyroscopic precession causes the force to act at 90º to the plane of rotation and in the direction of the rotation. Gyroscopic Precession is of extreme importance in aircraft design and useful in aerobatics (lomcevak) . In other words, the slightest force acted on the bit will cause it to wobble violently (and the forces will be proportional to the square of it's velocity, double the velocity, quadruple the forces).

Also, with the tip spinning at such rpm, the tip would probably just melt away from the friction of the stone. Gotta be a slow grinder, less than 1000 RPM range...

I'd gladly watch from a distance the testing of such a machine... video camera ready...



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-15-2001).]

But we're allowed to lay them in a 24" trench... Do they assume that the weight of the loosely compacted soil 24" deep is enough "pressure" on the rods?

Sorry to digress, but here is a better link explaining the physics behind the lomcevak maneuver...

lol,you guys r killing me with your ways of driving ground rods.try using your big hammer drills the rod fits right into the chuck.it drives it right down no hassle.i havent owned a sledge for 10 years now ,since i found how easy and less strainfull the hammer drill is.

One last thing, then I'm gonna save my money for a big rotary hammer... (or a bosch jack hammer) and no services for less than $1500... In the meantime I'll just keep bending rods when I have to...

'nuff said?

Man this thread makes me glad to live in God's country....Nebraska!!!

No bedrock, no big rocks, if you hit something in the ground it's because there was old construction on the site.

GJ

I've still got an old Phillips 747 hammer drill that I used to use for driving ground rods. It is bulky enough to drive in hard dirt and the chucks for the self drilling anchors hold to the rods pretty good. One of the things about using a hammer drill is the mass of the drill has to be pretty good because of the mass of the rod. Takes a while to get a rod in caleche though. That is where using a 45 degree angle works better. It is also easier to drive at a 45 with a hammer drill than a sledge or slide driver. I got the 747 from a pawn shop for $300 back around 1990. It was the whole outfit and 2 or 3 carbide bits.

[This message has been edited by gpowellpec (edited 07-15-2001).]

Be careful putting the ground rod directly in the hammer drill chuck. I totaled a drill that way. Some manufacturers make a ground rod adapter, if so you should use it.
Don

Some manufacturers make a ground rod adapter, if so you should use it.
Don

Yes, we have a ground rod driver for our 1 1/2" milwaukee thunderbolt. Usually it's not worth dragging it out for one ground rod, but recently we did an RV park, 35 sites. Man that day saved enough labor to pay for the driver and the hammer drill both.
It's the only way to go!

GJ

I feel for you guys. Living on a big sand bar (Long Island) has it's benefits I guess.
I can usually get the rod halfway down just by pulling on it.
Sometimes I would have to tap it down slowly for fear of losing it. Honestly!


Bill

I'm with you, Bill. Living here on the Outer Banks of North Carolina (also a sand bar) makes for easy ground rod driving. I, too, have lost many a ground rod by giving it that last little tap only to have to dig down and pull it up to grade. Most of the time, I can drive them in by hand depending on the area.

C.Urch,

I'm glad you wrote that!
I was thinking that some of these guys just would not believe it. When I use my small 3 lb sledge it will sometimes go down a foot at a time or more. So I have to take it easy sometimes and just tap it.


BTW,

We've been going down to your area for the last 5 yrs or so for family reunion week (Nags Head). Didn't go this year though. All I can say is you've got some HOT Sand there! I've been to the Dune several times (tallest in the Us? or biggest?) but only at night (I'm not crazy). Stay cool down there!

I also think of your area for the Saturday traffic and the "Brew-thru"


Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 07-16-2001).]

Somebody once said something about the less work you do, the more you get paid....

Hey again Bill A. and C.Urch, man do I envy you two. I also live in NC outside Charlotte. I always have to place my clamp on ahead of time cause the rod head mushrooms on me. When I lived in Florida it was as easy to drive something into the ground. Personally I hate ground rods!

Oh Yeah... Definitely gotta put the acorn on before you hammer...

Or break out the Dremel... (I've done that too, to grind the 'shroom down small enough to get the acorn on)

>I always have to place my clamp on ahead of time
Those other guys need to do that too... and clamp on the wire so they don't lose the rod when it sinks into the earth almost by just its own weight. Oh, joy!

well....the 'sliding hammer' is working well, the trick being the threaded sections taken off 1 by 1.

i'm merrily beatin the He** out of it as curiuos onlookers ask why...
Q with no rational answer, i like to tell them it's a tornado tie down

maybe i'll join a geological society..

Anyone worry about service laterals while driving ground rods? Sometimes there's just no way to determine which direction they're coming from. The rirst few feet always make me cringe.

Redsy,

I worry about water and gas lines. Especially now that they are using some type of plastic tubing for the Gas.

Bill

Don't you have a Miss Utility? In Pennsylvania we are required to place a dig notification 72 hours in advance and to be aware of what utilities might be in the area that are not covered by the One Call System.

I use the PA one-call system, when required, which contacts all local utility companies, but not to install a ground rod. Maybe I should. Do you use One-call to install ground rods?

I use the PA one-call system, when required,
What do you mean "when required"?
If you are disturbing the earth, which by law (Act 287 includes drilling, driving-in, scraping, and trenching), then by law you are required to place the notification at least three working days in advance.

Is your view that your equipment is not "powered"? Does an 8' steel rod being driven by a sledge hammer fall into the exemption for excavation with hand tools? Perhaps it's a grey area. I hope it is exempt; but I treat it like it is required unless I am sure of the facilities myself, such as a recently expired marking.

When I call in I just say I'm driving grounding electrodes to a depth of 100". No one has ever argued with me that I don't need to place a dig notification for that. (Are you just using hand tools for that, sir?)

It costs nothing to have facilities marked. It could cost a lot if you damage something when you could have called instead.

Anyone who is worried about hitting something knows he should have made the telephone call.

We've got Underground Service Alert (USA) out here in SoCA You don't dare stick a shovel in the ground without calling (+48 hrs.) Big Ol' Fine if you don't. It's well worth your while, anyway. A goof can really wreck your day, year, life. (Unless you strike oil or a vein of gold).
If the support's there, really, for your kid's sake use it.

I have no problem using One Call for a ground rod. I would think, however, that it may burden the system if every time someone drove a ground rod, One Call got involved. Maybe I'm wrong. I will call them to get their take on it. But, last time I called, which was to dig a trench for 120 volt landscape lighting, they DID ask if I was using "powered" equipment. (I was).

I have no problem using One Call for a ground rod. I would think, however, that it may burden the system if every time someone drove a ground rod, One Call got involved. Maybe I'm wrong. I will call them to get their take on it. But, last time I called, which was to dig a trench for 120 volt landscape lighting, they DID ask if I was using "powered" equipment. (I was).

The last time I used One Call, which was for a trench for 120 volt landscape lighting, they DID ask if I would be using powered equipment. It seems that using One Call for driving grounds might burden the system. (I understand the safety aspects). I will call them to see what they say. If it's O.K with them, it's O.K.with me.

Here's my definition of powered: having sufficient force to damage unseen facilities.

A sledge hammer on a ground rod is very much a power tool because when we get resistance, we strike harder.

Yes, a dig notification burdens the system. But I think it is what we are supposed to do when we aren't certain where the facilities are. I'm not hand digging a 8' test holes to make sure it is clear to drive my ground rod there. We aren't supposed to guess.

Dspark...

I've got a service this week tying into a pad-mount Xformer, UG... The PoCo is supposed to mark the line... Think I'll call Miss Utility tomorrow just to make sure..

You've convinced me...

I can't think of anything worse than hitting a 4160V line with a G-rod!

YIKES!

In your case, the tolerance zone is over 8'.

Your rod will follow the already disturbed earth if it can find it. So whereever they mark, start 8' away and angle away from the cable.

How about 4161?!

OK, OK yeah, and 4162... so on, etc, and other things... ad infinitum...

try a coke bottle to drive ground rods! what do i mean? i have found that adding water to the hole will help a ground rod go in...if you hit hard pan...MOVE THE ROD!

OK, I tried to drive a 5/8" rod with a 11233 TVS Bosch SDS Rotary Hammer today (I paid the damage waiver on the rental and used a core bit, didn't seem to hurt it...) and it drove the rod disappointingly slowly about two feet until stopping completely... in back-fill! I tried four different places!

The only device I've seen that's impressed me around here is a Bosch Electric Jackhammer, and I don't want to lift that kind of weight that high!

Hmm, you guys might like to ponder that the average residential ground rod here is only 4 to 5 ft.

In some parts of the country it's quite rocky, but here in the east rods go in easily with just a few taps on a hammer.

Drove the rods in my normal way with post driver for the first 6 ft and sledge for the final... I'd call the difficulty a 5 or 6 in a scale to 10, about average, I'd say an hour to drive two of them...

The Bosch was very disappointing for a tool that weighs 30 lbs!

I've been simply layin' the rods in the service lateral's ditch lately.

Sparky,
You can't lay them in the ditch unless you have tried to drive them and encountered rock. See 250-52(c)(3).
Don(resqcapt19)

I suppose then one would have to drive six rods here...

First rod strikes bedrock at, say, 5 ft verticle, can't pull it out, so cut it flush and abandon.

Second attempt at first rod at a 45ºangle (got to try it too before you lay it down, right?) hit bed at 6 to 6-1/2 ft, cut it flush and abandon...

Third attempt at first rod, dig 18" x 8' trench, (2002 it will have to be 30") a days work later you're half finished...

Now start the process over for the second rod...

Hmmmm...



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 10-26-2001).]

Or.... go get a rock, place the rod vertically on the rock, strike once with hammer, you've hit rock...

Lay at a 45º with tip on the rock, strike once with hammer, you've hit rock...

Lay the friggin' thing in the ditch...

Sorry if I sound a little facetious here...