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Posted By: pottenger NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 03/27/01 12:23 AM
is the standard cutting die with a 3/4-inch taper per foot (1 in 16) requirement + the FPN note referencing the ANSI/ASME B.1.20.1-1983 an NPT (national pipe taper) as found on a typical plumbing threader/die or is it an NPSM (national pipe straight mechanical) which usually has to be specified + special ordered? should conduit threaded in the field have a taper thread or a straight thread? factory threads on conduit look tapered to me. i have heard NPSM (straight thread dies) also called conduit dies ; but is this really true? thanks
The standard thread for connecting conduit to threaded fittings, is the same as that used by pipe fitters. The straight cutting die is for lock nut connections only.
The length of the taper thread must not exceed the dimensions as stated in the ANSI standards. A thread longer than the standard dimension is a running thread, and a code violation, when making threaded connections.
Two, or more threads exposed, indicates a loose connection.
Posted By: frodo Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/19/01 12:41 PM
i was under the impression that conduit threads were made to drain...

npt is a taper thread....pipe fitters, who use black pipe and galvanized etc., i thought used a straight thread to acheive a seal....
Posted By: electure Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/19/01 02:12 PM
The tapered thread on black pipe, etc. allows for a greater surface area to be in contact between the pipe and fitting. B.I. pipe comes with a "thread protector" on one end that is straight thread but looks like a coupling. If they're used, they usually leak like crazy. (A plumber I know had to redo the gas on 5 complete houses when the guy he sent out came back with a whole box of unused couplings on his truck)
Posted By: Redsy Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/21/01 11:11 AM
Hazardous Location work and fittings require tapered threads. These must engage for at least 5 threads and also be wrench-tight without use of locknuts. This helps to minimize spread of flame into the surrounding(explosive) atmosphere by cooling the flame to the point of extinguishment by the time it would work its way through the path of the threads. Running threads (Electrical allthread?) are not permitted in these applications.
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/21/01 12:55 PM
Redsy,
All field cut and threaded conduit requires taper threads, not just those in calssifed areas. Also because 346-8, the only time running thread time you can use running thread is if it is "factory" cut.
Don(resqcapt19)
Posted By: Redsy Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/21/01 03:50 PM
Thanks.
I don't have much experience with running threads myself, but I have seen all-threaded nipples of various lengths used with double locknuts & bushings at each end. Would this violate 346-8, if they were used in accordance with 346-9(b)? Or only if they were field-made? Also,in what lengths are these nipples commercially available.
Quote
Originally posted by resqcapt19:
Redsy,
All field cut and threaded conduit requires taper threads, not just those in calssifed areas. Also because 346-8, the only time running thread time you can use running thread is if it is "factory" cut.
Don(resqcapt19)
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/21/01 04:36 PM
I think that all thread comes in 36" lenghts. They can be used with double lock nuts and bushings. I've seen them many times used between panels.
Don(resqcapt19)
Posted By: doc Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/21/01 11:55 PM
well I swear that a few years back we had a contractor do a igid pipe job for us and the pipe dies he used had 3/4 re and which stood for electric rigid and the box that the dies were in had for rigid electric pipe only not to be used for regular piping or something along that line and when you put them up aganist regular pipe dies they were different and when using a thread guage on them u could see the difference in the threads I have always understood that rigid conduit threads and regular pipe threads are different not much but some now am I wrong
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/22/01 03:18 AM
Doc,
The code requires them to be the same. I am aware of at least two manufacturers of small threading machines for conduit that can only cut straight threads. They say that they are code leagle, but I don't see how.
Don
Posted By: Anonymous Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/22/01 03:34 AM
>B.I. pipe comes with a "thread protector"
Okay, what is B.I., please?
This sounds like a gotcha that I should know about. And I sure hope you don't mean black iron.

Should those protectors should be marked "Remove before installing" or "Discard this thread protector" or "Not for connection".

Of course, making the free end physically unable to connect to another pipe would be a pretty good idea too.

Black steel (usually 21' lengths) comes with a coupler fitted on one end as well. But I thought that this was for speed of assembly, though it also helps to protect those threads.
Posted By: Redsy Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/22/01 11:05 AM
We have always used NPT dies for our rigid.
The only other dies that I am aware of are NPT for Stainless Steel which can be used on softer metals but not vice- versa. Are there also special dies for aluminuminmumum?
Posted By: electure Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/22/01 11:54 AM
DSpark
Yes, the term I was referring to was Black Iron Pipe, which is correctly called Steel (pronounced "Crawfishing"). The term Iron is used also in this area by even the plumbers and pipefitters, although probably incorrectly.
. Q: What does the abbreviation IPS stand for, and why is it not SPS?
The thread protectors need not have any more warning on them than the plastic thread protectors on GRC or IMC, which don't say "not a bushing."
I can't see how any installation could be speeded up by having a coupling on the end installed by the factory, as you'd need to pull it off anyway to apply joint compound.
...I'll now shut up before my crawfish becomes a full-blown lobster...s

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 05-22-2001).]
Posted By: Redsy Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/22/01 04:12 PM
Our mechanic (mechanical)says that it means "iron pipe size" and is used to designate another material, such as PVC, as an equivalent in dimension to iron pipe of the same nominal size.
Quote
Originally posted by electure:
DSpark
Yes, the term I was referring to was Black Iron Pipe, which is correctly called Steel (pronounced "Crawfishing"). The term Iron is used also in this area by even the plumbers and pipefitters, although probably incorrectly.
. Q: What does the abbreviation IPS stand for, and why is it not SPS?
The thread protectors need not have any more warning on them than the plastic thread protectors on GRC or IMC, which don't say "not a bushing."
I can't see how any installation could be speeded up by having a coupling on the end installed by the factory, as you'd need to pull it off anyway to apply joint compound.
...I'll now shut up before my crawfish becomes a full-blown lobster...s

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 05-22-2001).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/22/01 08:57 PM
>The thread protectors need not have any more warning on them than the plastic thread protectors
Well, I don't know. But I'm not sure that I have seen one. The ones I've seen and used on black steel (2" and under) were very substantial and appeared indentical to couplers purchased off the shelf. Perhaps not all manufacturers use dummies?

> I can't see how any installation could be speeded up by having a coupling on the end installed by the factory, as you'd need to pull it off anyway to apply joint compound.
That's a good point if being used for gas.
But I should say that it assures that you have the correct number of couplers on hand.

Anyway, if they are unmarked, how are they distinguished from real couplers?
Posted By: electure Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/23/01 12:22 AM
Thanks. I've always wondered why a PVC fitting would have IPS written on it. I called my plumber friend and he couldn't answer that one. He did say that you can tell the thread protectors because they fit real loosely, and go too far on to the thread before they purchase.(I suppose this is an acquired "feel" like us tightening a wirenut). Other than that, his only comment was "It'll leak". Good thing I'm not a plumber 'cause most of mine leak anyway.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/23/01 12:37 AM
I don't believe that I've ever seen black steel thread protectors, and I sure hope I didn't!

IPS - iron pipe size - is one standard of sizing pipes, and is common for schedule 40 PVC. The size refers the inside diameter.

CTS - copper tubing size - is another standard, and is also used for CPVC and some small diameter polyethylene pipe which have thin walls. Of course, CTS copper still has IPS threads.

SDR - standard dimensional ratio - is used for piping, but I've never seen it used to refer to threads. Perhaps if we used SI instead of "English" measurements we could have one system?


[This message has been edited by Dspark (edited 05-22-2001).]
Posted By: Phil H Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/23/01 06:33 AM
I have heard the steel 'thread protectors' called merchant couplings but I do not know what they are used for. Most I have seen have ended up in land fills. Now I am curious why they are included. Typical #150 couplings used for plumbing are cast and have a raised band on each end in addition to the threads not going all the way through.I have also heard IPS called NPS, Nominal . . . Goes with NPT??

Redsy,
There are also dies for plastic pipes and coated pipes.

Phil H
Posted By: electure Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/23/01 12:37 PM
Iron Pipe or Black Pipe or Black Iron Pipe is correct terminology. I retract my crawfish.
The couplings that are sold here (even at Home Cheapo) have thicker bands around the ends, and 2 longitudinal bands.
. DSpark, what application have you that wouldn't require that compound or sealant be applied to the threads?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: NEC article 346-8 reaming + threading - 05/23/01 06:00 PM
>what application have you that wouldn't require that compound or sealant be applied to the threads?

Building a swing set?
I don't know what people do with it.
I figured that it has uses besides gas line.
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