I'm posting a recent question that came up for opinions on code legality and possible solutions.
Please add your Comments:

I have a house at the beach that needs to pass the final inspection for electrical. The kitchen has windows across one full wall and the sink and counters butt up to to the window seals. There is no room for electrical outlets on the wall or in front of the cabinets. Do you know of a pop-up
electrical outlet that can be placed in the counter of the kitchen that is flush with the counter until in use?


Please help. THANK YOU

I do not see anyting like this in my collection of catalogs,but that does not mean it's not out there.
You may find that it is more cost-effective to reconfigure the counter top vs.the "magic widget" you desire

Code options?
Consider 210-52-c-5-ex (a) and fake a limp for the AHJ ?

just kidding...

Isn't this one of those cases where it up to the designer ( architect/engineer ) to be sure that all codes are met ?

Let him/her re-design the counter and cabinet lay-out.

Glenn

I just want to clarify that this is a question that was sent to me, not a question that I was asking. I am interested in hearing of any cases in which someone has come up against something like this - and what was the result?

Every now and then I come across situations where the consumer just (adamantly!) does not want what is required by the code. Not for reasons of cost, but for the way it looks. I find it hard to tell a person that has spent $30,000 on Kitchen Remodel that someone has to cut in an outlet or 2 in the side of the Island to pass inspection. And it has to be near the Top!

Has anyone come up with any ingeneous solutions to issues like this?

Mr. Addiss,

I would also be interested in a solution.

Again, though, why is the architest/designer/engineer above the requirement of abiding by codes when they design such items , and then blame the problem on "THAT ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR" who is following the law if the local municipality had adopted such codes?

Why is it up to the electrical inspector to violate the adopted codes?

Is the inspector "suppose to" wear blinders when inspecting certain areas?

The "counter top" receptacles [NEC 250-52(c)] must have just appeared in the NEC yesterday!

Glenn

Glenn

I have run into this aswell. 1st time I put a plug at each end of the window and the inspector let it go. The second time (different inspector) it didnt fly. Luckly this was an eating bar and I had wall underneath. I ended up putting some plugs in just below the counter top and had holes cored in the back of the counter and with a few bushings, the inspector was now happy.

While this gave me a ok to cover it didnt make the architech very happy....Hmm are they ever

I'd prefer the 1st situation over the second. The inspector I feel has the right to use desrection while inspecting such situations. If its not an over bearing safety issue, I dont see the Code being something that is so rigid that it cant be molded to work with in more that one or 2 situations that might arise.

As for the question, I have never seen a "pop up" plug, would be kinda neat though.
Might have a look at some plug mold. I know ich but its very thin and can be placed on the window sash.

Glenn,Zoys,

I agree, it is a difficult situation. For the Inspector to do his job properly, He has to enforce the code and it's intent upon a public that is sometimes ignorant and aways testing its' 'outer' limits. My interest in this lies in finding a way to comply with, rather than circumvent the code rules.

My first thought was to mount receptacles in the Backsplash horizontally, but It doesn't sound like there is one. I also, was wondering about some type of plugmold/wiremold strip. Or, perhaps receptacles cut into the countertop (face up) with a shallow wiremold or other extension to bring it above flush. Would this be allowed? Has anyone done this?

Bill

Bill;
You could ask for some high end designer tombstone jobs..the aluminum models could be sent out for a colored anodized finish...

Sparky,

We call them Doghouses, would you want one (or more) on your Kitchen Counter?

Ok, so much for that idea, If the countertop has anything of a backsplash, it is viable space. If the countertop can be redone in ceramic tile, then it can "bump out" a few inches to create a raceway and thus space for wireing & device boxes. This may be accomplished neatly with some of the tile on the market.

Glen, Bill & ZoysGig..
inasmuch as i may not have a practical solution, i always make sure i have a contractual one for these instances.

It is usually in direct proportion to the number of cooks in the kitchen, i.e.- engineer, architect, desinger ...

OK, latest on this issue:

"Thanks Bill for posting my counter outlet problem. I read the reponses. Sorry to say no one has a solution that will work. I will call the inspector and see what happens. If you decide to patent a pop-up outlet I get some credit. Thanks Again-I'll let you know
the outcome."


So We have to wait to see the ending of this story....

Thanks for your inputs Guys

Mr. Addiss,

Sounds like I had an identical problem.
The contractor told me " I put in what the customer wants"

I suggest you just go over the inspector's head and go the the political boss.

It seems politicians do not have to follow laws and if they do get caught, just a slap on the hand. Maybe.

Glenn

Glenn,

Thanks for the input, but I am not really involved in this situation at all. I was just posting a question that I had received in an Email. My response to her (homeowner I assume) was to contact the local Inspector and ask him.

I would never try to go over anyone's head to get something passed. I have always had a good rappore with the local AHJ's and this I'm sure, is because if I come across something I am not sure of I will ask before I do something that may not be accepted. I may sometimes question why, or suggest alternatives, but the bottom line is that it is their call, their responsibility, their job.

Not meaning to make light of this, there is a quote that I came across (actually, on an Inspectors' website - and a member of this forum) that always stuck in my mind. I mean this to be taken in the best possible way:

"Arguing with an inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after a while you realize that the pig enjoys it."

Bill

My opinion,

The word "inspector" should be changed to " most politicians" in your quote when it comes to who is the inspector's ultimate boss.

I'm just guessing that the lowly inspector can not "hold a candle" to the support others can give to a politicians cause.

Glenn

If the homeowner has some pull with the local politicians, bankers or clergy and really is wanting it her way, she could be the bad guy with the inspector and the contractor can look like he is on the inspectors side. That is, if he can do it and not be worried about demeaning safety.

some times there may be room for wiremold between the counter top and the window it may not be what they wanted but it may allow them to pass inspection