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What 2 code violations would you like to wipe out totally? (you never see again - ever)

It could be something that you veiw as a Safety Hazard to the Public. Something that would make your job easier, or just something that bugs the Heck out of you.

I say 2 because I have 2 in my mind that I veiw equally intollerable.

Let's keep it PG Rated [Linked Image] and let it out, you'll feel beter for it!
373-5-c-Exc # b , I get hives when i read it
200-7-c-2....why bother putting that black tape on that white wire in a switch loop..this could be a 5 alarmer here Bill !
Sparky,

Could you please elaborate a little more for us that don't have a code book at all times?
And keep in mind that I'm talking about violations that you come across in the field (not talking about eliminating code rules - you can start another thread on that but prepare for rebuttals).
As far as new construction (residential) to this day I'd like to see no more of:

1) Over-crowded boxes (at least within reason...)

2) Conductors too short (although '99 code has clarified their intentions of the 6" free conductor rule as more lenient than my interpretation of the '96 code)

Honorable mention...
Lack of anti-oxidant on aluminum connections.
#1 "Tape on a wirenut"


The people that do this either need to do a better job of splicing or change the brand of wirenuts they use. Just what is it supose to do? hold the wirt nut on,(I doubt it) protect people from getting hurt from the exposed conductor beyond the wirenut. When I see this I hope it was not an electrician. That pratice should have been stoped back in the time of knob and tube w/soldered splices covered in friction tape. Ah that feels better!


#2 "Tape on a recp"


When I see tape wraped around a recp it looks to me as if that person has no confidence in there ability to do a safe job.What a stickey mess!

P.S. As far as these being a code violation I feel it is in violation of one of the section I take the most pride in following and that is 110-12 "Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner" Amen!

Dave T.

[This message has been edited by gto6t7 (edited 01-09-2001).]
Dave,

Now, doesn't that feel better? [Linked Image]

#1 I agree that when there is tape there is usually something going on that's wrong. Too many wires in too small a wirenut, too much insulation stripped off, wires too short, or my personal favorite - Twisted the Wrong Way! [Linked Image]

#2 Don't bite me here - I don't see a violation in wrapping a receptacle with tape, I do it myself. I feel that it makes things just a little safer for the remodeler that may have to pull it out, or the wallpaperer, etc. And it cuts down on the likelyhood of contact with a bare ground when Romex is used or the Box supports (We call them Madison Clips) in old work applications. You are right, though, if things are done correctly, and not touched by anyone afterwards - there is no need, But I would rather be safe than sorry especially in Residential work where a cover might break or be left off and a child might put their finger in the box. That's just one of my 'things' [Linked Image]

Anything else?
OOPs,sorry 'bout that chief [Linked Image]....ok, here goes, i'm getting REAL tired of explaining why it needs to be ( or be on ) a GFI. As a matter of fact, i'd rather hook 'em up to a cardiac monitor, and show 'em that way [Linked Image]
Bill,

The tape on the recp is the lesser of my two peeves but there is a solution to the recp one, from Eagle Electric. They have a hospital and industrial spec grade recp that has a little plastic cover that snaps over the terminals after it is wired (under the screws NOT those stab-in holes in the back, but that's another peeve.)

Dave T.
well #1 is any color wire being used for grounds and neutrals,#2 is wire splices that are jam packed not only in J-boxes but in control panels for equipment or just boxes or panels over crowded
For me it would be three things:

1: Insufficient bonding of equipment [using only the conduit for grounding in liew of a grounding conductor]. That one has only a few places where it's not bad, but mostly it is a hazard over time.,

2: Allowing [in the past] the use of a Gray conductor for use as an Ungrounded conductor and the stipulation of a "Natural Gray" conductor for the Grounded conductor. This should have never been allowed. I have seen Natural Gray only a few times and under some lighting, it looks the same as any other gray. It should have been reserved for either a grounded conductor [my preference, so it can identify separate multiwire systems in one enclosure], or only an ungrounded conductor - but never both as to the color variant of natural gray.
I've heard some of the home center personnel tell someone that it is a "hot wire" [ungrounded], but never a "neutral" [grounded]. This scares the heck out of me!!,

3: Cold water system for grounding electrode supplemental. This isn't really too bad until it falls into a 1000 amp service being supplemented to a 3/4" water pipe, or it being the sole electrode. Bonding of it is OK [to an extent! too much parallel current flowing in some places]. This whole GES situation is so controversial and mis understood by people that it's difficult to discuss without heated arguments or offending someone accidentally. To me, the worst thing for a lightning discharge grounding system would be to use the local underground water system, since the discharge is commonly connected to anyone's system that has a connection to the pipe. The UFER system to me is a better approach, since it will spread the discharge path locally to only that site.
The problem of paths created on the local utility power distribution is, of course, the key issue of bringing discharges in and out from remote locations, but it's limited to potential by relatively small conductors that do not always run in straight lines. Besides, the most crucial problem exists in the ground it's self prior to the discharge, so setting up a large grid is asking for trouble!

These are just my rant and rave thoughts, so please feel free to comment. If you must flame me, please keep it light! [Linked Image]

Scott.
Scott.....what is "UFER"
Sparky aa concrete encased electrode [Article 250-50(c)]is what is refered to as a "Ufer Ground".It is named after H.G.Ufer who did extensive research on the topic.
Thanks rain4; [Linked Image] and i thought the Soares book i have said it all....
Quote
Originally posted by sparky66wv:
As far as new construction (residential) to this day I'd like to see no more of:

1) Over-crowded boxes (at least within reason...)

2) Conductors too short (although '99 code has clarified their intentions of the 6" free conductor rule as more lenient than my interpretation of the '96 code)

Honorable mention...
Lack of anti-oxidant on aluminum connections.

As far as I know, there is absolutely no requirement in the NEC to use anti-oxidant on aluminum conductors. There isn't even a UL White Book requirement that I can find. I agree that it is best to use it though.

My favorites are more than one conductor per terminal and using 14 gauge wire for switch legs on 20 amp circuits.

Tom
Ok, how 'bout the "neat & workmanlike" part [Linked Image] I'm a little tired of those overstuffed panels , can't even see the noodle bar, kinda like stuffin'' a bunch of mop heads in a ceral box... [Linked Image]
Tom,

You're right!
At least, I can't find it either...

Funny how the mind works...it's been so ingrained into my thinking that I can almost picture the page that the "anti-oxidant rule" is on, even though it doesn't exist...

I stand corrected.
'66 (Is that good for you?)

I could swear that I have seen it myself. Perhaps in a Handbook? It could have been 10 - 15 years ago, but I can almost see it too. Mentioning dissimilar metals and oxidation? I'll have to look and see if I can find it. [Linked Image]
Sparky66 & Bill

We could probably start a whole separate thread about the anti-oxidant isuue. If the manufacturer of the connector does not require its use, then for the most part, it isn't needed. I've seen 20 year old connections without the paste that are still good & I've seen also seen them burn up in less than a year. Probably has a lot to do with the installer & the environment. I do know that your chances of making a good connection are better with the paste.

Bill, I agree that the memory is a funny thing. Untill about a month ago, I would have swore that you had to use anti-short bushings with type MC cable. I was mistaken. I will continue to use them.


Tom
Yeah, '66 is fine by me...


It may have been in the '96 Am. Electrician's Handbook, but I haven't got a copy of it right now...(on loan)
Can MC Cable be considered a "subdivision" of AC Cable? It seems to fit the definition of either. 333-9 requires bushings for AC Cable as you were probably aware.

I'm "asking" more than I'm "telling" here...
'66

MC has its own article so I don't believe that anything in the Armored Cable article applies unless it is specifically referenced.

Actually, I think we should start a thread of our top 10 code violations, just listing 2 doesn't do justice to all the poor installations we've seen. What amazes me is how basic most of these violations are. I guess if the lights come on & the receptacles work, it must be safe.
OK,

I started this thread 5 days ago after returning from a hectic day where things just seemed to be against me. I had 2 very definite things in mind and I didn't mention them right off because I WAS SURE (!) that someone else would. Nope, didn't happen, so here goes...

#1 Working Clearances around eguipment

#2 Lighting around service equipment

I was at a Doctor's office complex that complained of lights out and a breaker that would not reset. Panelboard was in a closet - there was a light in the room, but not near the Panel I had to look at. A metal ventilation duct ran from floor to ceiling about 6 inches in front of the left side of panel. There was a waste pipe (pvc) about 3 feet back and center. OK? maybe still no problem,

But ... Oh, the other thing I forgot to mention was that the pvc pipe I was talking about was going down into a Pit which started about 12 inches back from the panel.

So, I'm there in the dark, trying to hold a 3D flashlight and a Fluke meter to test wires, standing in front of the pit with my face about 3 inches in front of the breakers.
I felt like Indiana Jones!

So that's my choices.
Any seconds?
Bill; I have the smaller flashlights, so i can hold on to them with my teeth, probably would make a good bite stick if i connect.. [Linked Image]

Your not the only "closet electrician" [Linked Image]
Wal-mart has lights that strap to your head for about $8. (That and knee pads have made my life a lot easier!) Look for them in sporting goods.
Let's see.......
Light on forehead, pads on knees, screwdriver in mouth, pocket protector full of markers, pens and mini-screwdrivers, belt with toolpouches, meters and batterypowered drill......

Hmm.....

I believe we have a character for a blockbuster movie, "Lectric Jones". Imagine him wrassling the PowerMongers for control of the Panel of Doom at the pit.


(Sorry, Bill, to have taken this serious thread down into the pits.)




[This message has been edited by gpowellpec (edited 01-15-2001).]
And while you're at it, keep your eye on the ball, your ear to the ground, your nose to the grindstone. Try working in that position. [Linked Image]
what about having to move the store room and the janitors cleaning tools to get the panels!!!!
How about moving a 1/2 ton of paper out of the way, like I usually have to do anytime I work in a bank.
Tom,

Was that just paper you're complaining about?
Or is that "it's just paper" that's bothering you? [Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Who can forget the guy who tries to fix it himself first?
Bill,

If the paper was green with pictures of dead presidents on it, I might not complain.

Sometimes the junk is piled so high, the only way you know a panelboard is there is that you can't find it anywhere else
Tom,

OK, I wasn't sure that you would get my meaning. [Linked Image]
This thread is great......i had to find a subpanel once....asked around....took hours only to find it behind a picture in the office of the first person i asked! She never even knew it was there !
Friday at work went to a school and it had boxes of books in front of a transformer that puts off alot of heat! What does a person need to do to make people understand
about electrical clearences?? Any ideas??
At almost every bank branch that we go into to do work, the gear room is somehow confused with the paper storage, holiday decorations, janitor's sweeper/trash can, extra chair storage room!

The 50 or more boxes of printer paper are, of course, stacked up in front of the main disconnect switch.

The chairs and misc. other furniture get stacked in front of the gear for the subfeeds.

The subpanels, if any are located in the same room, get the holiday decorations and Janitor's stuff piled in front of them. And don't forget the piles on, and around, the Transformers!!

The only thing that can be seen clearly is the KWH meter! [obviously from the readers' complaining about being unable to see the register dials].

I always move the stuff away and try to explain to the branch staff why it's bad, but it never sinks in [until the fire department makes an inspection], then suddenly it's a big deal!

It's kind of funny, because when the fire department gets on their case about the clearance issues, all the contractors and subs get the normal faxed letter and warn against doing this!! Also, the gear room gets some hand written signs plastered all over the place.

When we arrive to work, the very same people that I have told over and over again about the junk in the gear room, make it a point to tell us not to store things in the gear room close to the gear.... and they do it without even feeling stupid or realizing they heard me bitching about it just a week before! [please excuse the curse word].

As you can tell, this is one of my favorites! It gets me a little hot under the collar! Glad to see others have seen the same baloney as I had seen - over and over and over. I didn't think about listing it earlier because it not only pisses me off, but wasn't sure if others had dealt with it too.

Working on bank branches is not too bad, but some places are really sloppy - as in how the staff keeps things. Loan offices/branches are the worst as far as finding hidden messes. They throw things anywhere out of site!!

Teller lines are real messy too, due to all kinds of trash, lint and junk stuffed everywhere. Also, when a LAN system is upgraded, most of the older cable vendors leave TONS of junk, plus the older systems' cabling and peripherals in a spaghetti fashion. Even the equipment vendors leave older and unused stuff around, like monitors, patch bays, hubs [MAUs, to be more accurate, since the LANs are always Tolken Ring], keyboards, broken Mice, 50,000 patch cords and the occasional work station or antiquated server. Lots of telephone sets here and there also, and don't forget the old 66 blocks from the old TBB!

Other than slicing through the forest of debris with a meshetti [is that how it's spelled?? the big knife that safari people use to hack their way through the jungle??], the work is not too bad.

So much for short messages [Linked Image]

Scott "S.E.T."
sure reads like many a sparky's day [Linked Image]

I've seen the AHJ in my locale issue a 48 hr, or even 24 hr "fix-it" citation for just such an instance.

Some people just gotta yank the lions tail !
It is Spanish and is spelled machete
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