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Posted By: BigB 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/05/13 03:51 AM
Article 210.12 (2012) Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter Protection does not include bathrooms, kitchens or garages in the list of required circuits to be protected, but it does list “or similar areas”. Does this mean that the lighting circuits in the garage, bathroom and kitchen do not need to be AFCI protected? Does this also mean that any kitchen receptacle circuits that do not serve the countertops need not be AFCI protected, even if they are not GFCI protected (i.e. dishwasher, fridge, range hood microwave)?
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/05/13 06:23 AM
That is the way I read it. That multiwire under the sink for the dish washer and disposal is still OK.
Posted By: BigB Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/06/13 05:51 AM
Thanks. We just adopted the 08 & 12 in one swoop, got some catching up to do.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/06/13 07:20 AM
I was at lunch with a Leviton rep who had one of the elusive AFCI devices a week or so ago and he says they believe the length restriction to the first device will be gone in 2014 and we will be able to drop a device in the first box to protect the circuit downstream
Posted By: harold endean Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/06/13 02:44 PM
What about lights in detached garage? As BigB said, would they have to be on a AFCI? As some of you know, that code section that states "AND SIMILAR AREAS" is not a very good way to write that code section. Plus AFCI's were originally to protect just the bedroom receptacles from those annoying extension cords.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/06/13 03:37 PM
Regarding a 'detached' garage...NO AFCI requirements. Receptacles are required to be GFI, and that's it.

Argue that if the garage is attached....the word 'garage' is not mentioned, nor would a lot of us think it is 'similsr' to the areas listed. Now, for some of us that think 'ahead', what if the garage is used for a 'play area' like with a ping-pong table??

Evenyually, IMHO, a house will soon be ALL AFCI &/or GFI.

Posted By: HotLine1 Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/06/13 03:38 PM
Greg:
Yes, the elusive AFCI device is around. I requested a 'sample' two weeks ago, but to date nothing.
Posted By: harold endean Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/10/13 04:21 PM
John,

I agree that AFCI is not required in a garage and I also foresee AFCI and GFCI will be required for the whole house. I am still not "sold" on the idea that AFCI is a stable product. I haven't used any of them yet, but I still hear a lot of EC's complaining about them.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/10/13 04:59 PM
Still waiting for a reply on IF a sample of the 'device' is available. I'll look in the 'big-box' store next time I'm in there.
Posted By: BigB Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/14/13 05:44 AM
Another location has come up. 120 volt air handler in the attic. Very common here, and they are all plug and cord connected as well.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/14/13 08:11 AM
Ref attics

If that is a dedicated circuit or a circuit that also only serves one of the exempt rooms, it will not need an AFCI
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/14/13 11:30 PM
That air handler with a cord/plug seems to be getting more popular; I thought it was just a Florida thing?

Hard wired (our way) it would not even be a thought.
Posted By: Tesla Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/15/13 12:35 AM
Pardon me, but I thougt that the true purpose of the AFCI was to protect sleepers from the consequence of plug connected appliances.

There are a lot of embedded assumptions:

Bedroom appliances get physically abused -- as in stepped on or otherwise crunched...

They are very, very, reluctantly retired by the owners -- because the worst offenders are those that provide auxiliary space heating. AFCIs don't provide meaningful protection for corded vacuum cleaners and such.

In which case, the AFCI circuit should've been a NEMA mandate for space heaters. Yes, it'd double their cost, but they're the devices that are implicated in bedroom fires.

The notion that an AFCI circuit will actually protect against a field wiring fault -- an extremely rare mechanism for a bedroom associated fatality -- seems a reach, for me.

Anything that sensitive is going to trip out over an endless number of universal-motor circuit issues. And, universal-motors are everywhere in home appliances.

Just the arcing at a worn commutator would h a v e to stimulate any trip circuit. Arcs are arcs.

This kind of false positive is going to have users all over the nation bypassing the AFCI breakers -- probably by pulling them off the bus and installing a conventional breaker.


Posted By: HotLine1 Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/15/13 02:10 AM
Tesla:
I agree on some of your points. The mfg literature, available video clips, and other forms of advertising that I have seen, and have leaned toward the nail in the NM arc.

Back in first look at AFCI, I questioned the issues of abused 'cords' on appliances, extension cords, lamps, etc. The AFCI evolved into the 'combo' for series & parallel arcs, and supposedly protected the utilization equipment & branch circuit.

Be all that as it may, the states that adopted the various editions of the NEC, have to live with the code, unless there are local or stste amendments. Here in NJ, AFCI was mandated with the 2008 NEC (in mid 2009). We all learned to 'live with it'. ECs complained, Inspectors complained, homeowners complained, builders complained....and in the end, we all live with it.

I have not heard of anyone removing, or bypassing an AFCI.

Now, I'm looking forward to the still elusive AFCI device. It's here, somewhere & I requested a 'sample' from a Leviton Rep, & haven't heard a word back.

BTW, In my EC days, I stayed as far from resi as I could!
Posted By: gfretwell Re: 2012 NEC 2012(A) - 03/15/13 02:47 AM
Tesla, it was the sleeping babies that got the camel's nose under the tent. Now the usage has expanded to virtually every circuit in the house for some ambiguous problem they have not really spelled out ... other than they were not making enough money on a $5 breaker so they found a way to sell $50 breakers.
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