Can this 1/4" x 2" copper or aluminum busbar, this section is referring to, be an equipment grounding conductor terminal busbar in a subpanel?

So you are saying that you have a 1/4" x 2" bar in the subpanel that you want to use? OR instead of 1/4" x 2" you want to use the grounding busbar in the subpanel?

Correct. Could the grounding busbar in the subpanel be used for this purpose, since it meets the requirements such as being aluminum or copper AND 1/4" by 2" minimum.

I am still not sure I understand the situation. Why would the GEC be going to a sub panel?

New main service panelboard with disconnect, was installed in building, which the Grounding Electrode Conductors were terminated in(NEC 2008 250.64(F)(2).

NOW... POCO wants the main service disconnect OUTSIDE the building, per their preference.

Well... doing so would make the indoor, newly installed main service panelboard, with disconnect now a feeder panel. Which will now require removal of MBJ and installation of a seperate equipment grounding conductor from newly required OUTDOOR service disconnect.

QUESTION is now what should be done with the Grounding Electrode Conductors(which now are just bonding jumpers to the different electrodes) that are terminated in what is now the feeder panel.

If a new, Grounding Electrode Conductor were installed from the newly required, outdoor service disconnect...

into what is now the feeder panel....

and terminated on the equipment grounding conductor terminal bar...

would that be in compliance with NEC 2008 250.64(F)(3)?

I would not want to see that setup at all. I would want a legal splice in the GEC going right to the service disconnect or some other place between there and the service point.

You could get that 1/4"x 2" bonding bus and be legal. (although the examples of this bonding bus in the handbook refer to multiple SDSs)

Easier would be to just run a new GEC to the service panel if you have an accessible electrode like building steel or a water pipe and bond the other electrodes there.

the minimum requirement per NEC is 1/4" thick by 2" wide. the grounding bar in the subpanel is not 2" wide.

If you can, just install a bar outside of the panel and connect all of your existing GEC to it.

Yes, I understand running a new GEC to an independent splice point or external bonding point, for the electrode bonding jumpers, would be the preferred method.

Issue at hand, though, is whether or not using the subpanel grounding terminal bar as this 1/4" x 2" bar is a violation or not.

"Issue at hand, though, is whether or not using the subpanel grounding terminal bar as this 1/4" x 2" bar is a violation or not."

Is this bar in fact 1/4" thick, and 2" wide, and xx" long?

Ground blocks/bars are usually not 1/4" thick, 2" wide by xx" long.

I have to agree with Gregs first paragraph, in his response above.

Niko, I have seen grounding bars that are 1/4" thick by 2" wide, in some bigger switch gear equip. So then that would not be a violation correct?

But the grounding terminal bar that is not 1/4" thick by 2" wide, in similiar gear or subpanels, would obviously be a violation?

Both those statements sound correct?

Hotline, Lets use a basic, standard, big box store 200 amp breaker panel for example...

The equipment grounding conductor terminal bars are usually
1) Aluminimum
2) 1/4" thick, though with predrilled holes.
3) Minimum 2" long. Is that not the same as 2" wide?

I suppose this is where my confusion on this exact code section is coming from.

Unless some one can find an issue with the above but i don't see a problem with the 1/4" x 2" ground bar being in the panel.

IMHO, we would be splitting hairs debating the 'big box' panel ground bars.

I see the wording within the NEC as a piece of copper, or aluminum that has three (3) dimensions; thickness, width, and an assumed length. Yes, the 'length' is not spelled out in any minimum dimension, but I consider it assumed.

There are formulas to determine amperage ratings for buss bars, and ground/neutral termination bars.

I think of this as attempting to terminate a GEC/EGC that is of a larger AWG than the max that the termination bar is designed to accept.

As Niko stated, I agree with the last scenario.

This is the picture in the handbook where they talk about this bus bar. It is clear they mean wide with the length unspecified (but assumed to be greater than 2")



BTW does anyone else question the green wire if this is supposed to be a picture of GECs?

Thanks everyone for the input!

Gfretwell, IF the GEC grounding bar you have pictured,was installed IN and BONDED to a Feeder panel enclosure, would it be a violation?

Greg:
Thanks for the pic! I just took a few at a data center.

Yes, they have 750KCmil copper & it's green (Simpul)!!

I think this is refering to the bonding screw that comes with a panel. Some panel manufuterers give a piece of copper (copper clad) to bond the nuetral grouding to the enclosure this about .25 X 2 in. . And to Up2code if the main is outside the panel now is technically a subpanel in RI anyway.