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Posted By: harold endean Balcony - 02/08/12 03:09 PM
I have a question and I don't know if it was asked before. If you have a balcony as per 210.52(E)(3) and you have handrail that goes right up to the door frame, How are you suppose to mount a receptacle and still be within the perimeter of the balcony?
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Balcony - 02/08/12 03:42 PM
No side walls? No 'wall' space at all? Option #1 might be a suitable raceway and a receptacle mounted to the rail. Can I say ugly?

Or, hope it is less than 20 square feet, per the exception.

Posted By: KJay Re: Balcony - 02/08/12 05:25 PM
IMO, in building construction terms anyway, an area of that minimal size at the top of the stairs, which it sounds like your describing, would generally be considered a landing and part of the staircase, so probably not an actual balcony in the traditional sense or as mentioned in the NEC.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Balcony - 02/08/12 06:13 PM
Harold has a good point.

The NEC originally has a square footage requirement, before the balcony required a receptacle. That requirement was removed, essentially requiring all balconies to have a receptacle.

The problem is that many buildings have 'balconies' that are no wider than the patio door that faces them. While it's fine for the balcony light to be mounted above the door, or to the side of the balcony, neither location is very good for a receptacle.

Hanging it from the railing is not much of an improvement. You're still stuck with a junction box- which has to be accessible.

I don't care how 'good' floor receptacle have become, I really don't want one out in the weather in a place like a balcony deck. Plus, if you want to be out on the balcony jackhammering the deck, you're a braver soul than I!

Time for the AHJ to use his authority to waive the code requirement.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Balcony - 02/08/12 06:15 PM
If you need to make it pretty, have the rail fabricator box in the first pair of rail balusters, up a foot or so and set an FS box in there. Then you can hide the raceway/cable where it enters the wall next to the door frame. Do it on the side opposite of the door opening (on the hinge side or pocket side) so the cords will be away from the traffic path.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Balcony - 02/08/12 09:42 PM
Under circumstances where there could be a trip/safety issue, I would have no issue granting a variation for NO receptacle. Gregs solution will work, IF someone spends some $$$.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Balcony - 02/10/12 06:29 PM
Greg,

What happens if it is wrought iron railing?
Posted By: harold endean Re: Balcony - 02/10/12 06:30 PM
John,

This is a question an EC asked me, he also asked me if I would fail him for NOT putting a receptacle out there?
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Balcony - 02/10/12 06:56 PM
Wrought Iron might be the easiest to deal with since you could just bridge the balusters with a steel enclosure and paint it to match the railing.
Tougher would be some fancy power coated aluminum rail.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Balcony - 02/10/12 08:19 PM
Harold:
The answer would be it's your call as AHJ. IF the balcony is under 20 Sq ft, the exception solves the situation.

If it's over 20 sq ft, you may consider a variation application, with substantiation that is acceptable to you.

However, I would add that the substantiation has to be enough to CYA. The variation may be considered a precedent that could be referenced by others.

Gregs solution sure sounds like the best idea, but without 'seeing' the job, we may all be guessing.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Balcony - 02/12/12 11:12 PM
Greg and John,


Just for the record, this isn't an inspection that I am doing. An EC just asked me the question. He was failed in a different town for not having the receptacle out there. However I have seen many houses where the handrail runs right up against the door frame, and I was wondering what I would do, if the problem arose for me.
Posted By: Jim M Re: Balcony - 02/13/12 03:54 AM
This is one when the minimum square footage exception made sense. Maybe it is time for it to come back, but maybe with a smaller minimum square footage.
Posted By: ghost307 Re: Balcony - 02/13/12 07:37 PM
The problem with any type of minimum square footage is that as soon as you codify a hard-and-fast rule people will work overtime to find a way around it.
We had rules for Bathrooms...people invented 'Powder Room'.
We had rules for Kitchens...people invented 'Break Room'.
As soon as we set a lower limit of 12 sq.ft. for balconies...people will either invent 'exterior viewing area' or find a way to build them to be 11.999 sq. ft.

IMHO, that's why we will always need 90.4; so the AHJ can catch folks who try to slither through on a technicality.
Posted By: Tesla Re: Balcony - 02/13/12 11:03 PM
I don't see that as a crippler.

The rationale for a receptacle at deck height is the need -- triggered by the functionality of the space for everything from festive lighting to BBQs.

At 4x5 feet, 20 square feet is going to provide a GFCI receptacle for anything larger than a landing.

11.999 square feet will always be rounded off -- to 20 sq ft.

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GFCI receptacles have gotten so cheap - and their safety value so apparent - that the Code is placing them all over the place.

Trying to design them out ( value engineering ) is a total waste of effort, in my opinion.

-------

In my commercial installation experience -- we don't even attempt to chain GFCI receptacles -- the end user would never be able to figure out where to re-set the tripped device.

Posted By: renosteinke Re: Balcony - 02/14/12 03:30 PM
Ironically, we can run into competing interests here. The NEC isn't the only factor at work.

I don't see too many balconies that are not part of high-rise, high density housing. Over the years, I've encountered all manner of leases that stipulated "NO laundry" and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear a landlord object to a balcony being used for anything at all.

As you might guess, such landlords are not about to put in receptacles to frustrate their policies. Places are deliberately designed this way, and for that reason. Why else are there so many places where the only thermostat is in the boiler room?

As the NEC gets into 'design,' it leaves the arena of safety and enters the realm of social engineering.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Balcony - 03/14/12 01:53 PM
As Ghost has said, once you have a rule, some people will try to engineer around it. The code use to say that if you have a service and that was over 6' wide AND over 1200 amp., you needed 2 means of egress. I once saw where a large box store had it's equipment specially made so that the width of the equipment didn't exceed 6' wide. Now the code says 6' wide OR over 1200 amp.
Posted By: luckyshadow Re: Balcony - 03/25/12 04:18 PM
I know a condo complex that had a bunch of the balconies as described in this post. They are as wide as the patio doors. We had them install the required receptacle above the railing on the fixed panel side of the patio door. Turned out pretty good too. The EC used those siding blocks that are installed prior to the siding and they match the siding as well. Blended right in
Posted By: pdh Re: Balcony - 03/25/12 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by harold endean
As Ghost has said, once you have a rule, some people will try to engineer around it. The code use to say that if you have a service and that was over 6' wide AND over 1200 amp., you needed 2 means of egress. I once saw where a large box store had it's equipment specially made so that the width of the equipment didn't exceed 6' wide. Now the code says 6' wide OR over 1200 amp.

They will put in French doors and call it two doors.
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