I am bidding a renovation of a building that will be an event hall. The inspector told the owners that they must have outlets at least every 12 foot and any wall over 2 foot. This applies to residential, but does it apply to commercial also? This facility would fall under Article 518 considering it will occupy more than 100 people. Thanks

The general rule for 12' spacing applies to Residential, not Commercial occupancies.

An event hall is a heavy user of electricity, as well as water and other utilities. The spacing requirement may just be to get a price based on an estimated receptacle count. The finished drawings should show where they should all be located.

Also, in such an application it is not uncommon to require a separate circuit for each receptacle...make sure that you confirm how many panelboards and homeruns you will need before you commit to a number.

Good luck with your Bid.

I agree with the outlet comments but I suggest that you also check the plans and see if it is indeed a place of assembly. Look for Use Group A on the plans somewhere. Just because it can/will accommodate 100+ people does not automatically put it in Article 518. The type of construction and the design professional will make that call. If it's not a Place of Assembly you might be able to save a considerable amount of money using NM cable. As always, check the plans.

Thanks for the information. This facility is owned by a young couple starting a new business in a small community. There are no elelctrical prints. They have told me what there needs are and are leaving it to me to design it. That is not a problem, however I need to follow the codes rather close to compete with other bidders. Change orders can be made after the job has been aquired if necessary.

The prints that I do have don't specify "Group" but I do know that it will occupy more than 100 as the code defines "assembly occupancies". So if I read correctly, there is no minimum number/spacing of required receptacles, correct?

Merlin, don't let them toy with you. Stop what you're doing right now!

No prints, no quote. Otherwise, these fine folks are going to let you do the design, then take your design and let the other guy tear it apart. All you'll get is 'gee, we wanted to hire you but you were so much higher.'

Likewise, they'll learn from your bid just what lies to tell. They told you 'assembly.' The moment they see that costs them money, they'll call it something else.

Don't quote without a design- and don't design for free!

There's another danger that you may get the job based on 'Code minimum' and spend the rest of your life in court because it didn't meet their unstated expectations.

Imagine how the hall could be used. Even if it's just a crafts show, 2 people using electric glue guns could overload a single circuit. Each table location would need its own breaker. What about folks who wanted power in order to show off their wares?

I agree 100% with Renos on this. You're being asked to give a price for a 'pig in a poke' or at the very least to do free design work so that someone else can build it. Don't fall into a trap that you'll possibly never be able to get out of.

First & foremost I agree with Ghost and Reno 100%

Here in NJ you would not be able to submit an electrical permit application without 'plans'! To do design/build...you still need plans with the permit app. Personally, I learned the hard way about providing a 'quote' on a no-plans yet' job. 98% of those people were shopping, or had 'friend'.

As to the classification of the building, Assembly guidelines are within the Building Codes, and the Building AHJ may make the determination during plan review.

They may want to use spider boxes (preferrably the real ones, not hacked panels with quad boxes bolted to them) to allow for easy reconfiguring.
/mike

Maybe I should clarify the term "event hall". This will be a reception hall for weddings, reunions, and other catered gatherings. They are using the term "event hall".

I aknowledge and appreciate all of the concern. However, I am pretty well covered on this situation. I was recently "screwed" on a residential job that is currently tied up in court. Since then I have taken some precautions to prevent such a thing.

I will not give them my design, just a description of the work that will be performed. Once again, this is a small community and permits and plans don't always get done like they should.

The only warning I would have on a room like that is you need plenty of power at the places where they will set up the entertainment and where they set up serving lines for food.
Bands will want lights and power for amps, the chef will need power for 1.4kw chafers and heat lamps on the serving line.

Greg is right on with the bands and the catering lines.

'Small community' sounds interesting!

If you want to estimate how much power the bands may need, call a few typical bands directly and ask what they expect to see when they arrive at the venue for their keyboards, amplifiers, electronic drumsets, specialized lighting and the rest.
Then consider rounding that requirement upwards and treating it as a continuous load since you never know how long the band will have this stuff switched on for.
Be ready to duplicate this setup wherever the band may be setting up for the event.

One Country Club Clubhouse I did a while back.....Location #1 8x20amp 120 volt circuits; location #2 same.
Gazebo outside in pool area (50'> from water) 8x20 amp, 120 volt circuits; Exterior 'party area' same. Stage in Grill Room had 4x20 amp, 120 volt. ALL were GFI receptacles.

Buffet knee wall had 8x20 amp, 120 volt & 2X30 amp, 208 volt (coffee makers). Patio buffet area had the same set-up. (You learn to keep the chef & his staff happy if you are hungry) All GFI

This is just an example of requested power availability. The various bands actually required about 60% of the power. The food worked out fine.

You guys talk about design for free, well my former foreman who now works for himself had a story to tell me. It seems a nice lady asked him to lay out a kitchen renovation and a new service. Well as he was going over every little detail, he say how she was writing down everything exactly as he was describing it. You know, 1 outlet here, on 12 ga wire, and 1 outlet there on 12 ga, etc. As he watched her write down every little detail he got suspicious of her. So he decided to have a little test ( or fun) with her, and start telling her the wrong stuff. The kitchen recpt. need to be at least 6' apart, 1 circuit is required, 14 ga wire is enough.

Well he didn't get the job, but a month or 2 later he got a call from the lady. She was mad with him because he gave her the wrong information. She wanted to sue him, but he asked her how can she sue him. He didn't get paid for any design, nor did he get the job. She never called him again.